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Ok guys i need you to back me up here .......some dealer issues!!!!

2K views 23 replies 9 participants last post by  sportsman500 
#1 ·
well as of 2 weeks ago i had the issue with coolant all over my res and the cap so i took it in and they pressure tested the cap and it was leaking at 3 psi ,so they put a new cap on and its been fine , the snow has started to fall so i have been plowing and last night popped the hood again and a smaller amount of coolant all over the place. Took it in this morning, keep in mind my best friend is the head diesel tech at my dealer so he wouldnt try to screw me, and he ran some tests and called me and said that i lifted the heads but its not too bad yet and he doesnt wanna put my truck down during the plowing season so he wants me to wait till after winter to do the over haul , now here comes the problem, when i told him that all of you guys are running the ARP head studs he said that he wouldnt reccomend doing it. why i dont no but he said that they can and will still lift, and hes seen and done about Eight 6.0 PSD trucks come in with the ARP studs and they still lifted so its like i have you guys as my friends telling me what to do and i dont no what to do..............?!?!?!!? so what are some reason's that i should and shouldn't do it? and how much are they, he will put them in for free....... i just dont understand why they wouldnt work ? thanks sorry for it being so long ..... all input and advise would be very appreciated!!!!!
 
#2 ·
The only way that I could see the arp head-studs lifting are because they were not installed right. There is a certain procedure that is required when running head-studs. I know of some people that do not re-torque the studs after they have put them in and then that is when you can have an issue with them. It is simple why you should run the head studs. It is all about bolt stretch when under boost pressure the cylinder gets pressurized and it tries push on the surface area of the cylinder head causing the stock bolts to stretch and lift the heads. with the head-studs they are made of alot better quality metal that will stretch less so there is a less likely chance of the heads lifting!!!!
 
#3 ·
psi_2_high, I wouldn't go back with the stock stuff unless you plan on selling your truck. You will be back in the same situation eventually and it might be too late for the warranty to cover it. ARP studs are much better than the stock ones.
 
#4 ·
I would have the heads checked. Use the black onyx gaskets adam sells at fcdp throw in studs and a egr delete. At that point it would be very unlikely to lift the heads. If you want more insurance get the h11 studs.
 
#5 ·
whats the diffrence between the h11 and the ARP?
 
#8 ·
i didnt look before i took it into the dealer i was just soo p***** off i just went straight to the dealer
 
#7 ·
If i remember correctly the arp's recommended torque is much higher and dont require a retorque. The h11's are stronger but must be retorqued. No way would i not install studs. Make sure the heads are straight too. I believe you can take .005 off of them.
Or maybe new heads under warranty if they need to be surfaced.
 
#9 ·
so h11's are head studs as well ???? and who makes them and what do most of you guys use out there?
 
#10 ·
h11's have a higher tensile strength. But only neccessary if big time power is made.
I have a 7.3 but if i was you i would be happy with the arp's(cheaper and no retorque). Like anything, allparts can break. But if the head is perfectly flat and the good quality gaskets are used and the torque sequence is dont correctly, then no problems should be had because of the arps coming loose or stretching.
Its a job to take the cab back off to retorque after a bit of driving.
I believe the 06 up head gaskets had more plies then the 03 and 04 trucks. I think 3 to 5 plies.
I am not knocking your mechanic friend, may be a great guy. But if he, or anyone tells you a bolt for anything is better then a stud, he or she is nuts!
Sometimes the shop wont put studs back in. They will only use ford stuff. If thats the case find another shop. They wont buy the studs ever! You have to. But if given to them they should do it. They get to resell the head bolts. Get your pal some arp's, make sure he understands what arp says to do in installing them.
More often then not the egr/oil cooler is the culprit and the heads get blamed. If its under warranty then have to reinstall the coolers. Get the aftermarket cooler, its on this site from one of the venders. Much more solid. Its like 500 bucks. That wont break again.
Turn off the egr with a tuner
 
#14 ·
The fact is. The stock headbolts have not been changed. Or if they have there is not supporting Info. They did start torquing them more than they first did. There is a tsb supporting that. Given that the egr system/ egr cooler/ oil cooler are a lot of the times behind the bolts failing. I would think that the removal of the egr system would be fine with out tunes on a stock truck with stock bolts. Tunes might also be ok given you drive good. But considering the cost of labor to repair the head gaskets why would chance the head bolts to the stregnth of the head studs?
 
#15 ·
I wish I knew what I know now when my first headgaskets blew.

The best gaskets in the world and the strongest holding head studs dont mean squat if the heads aren't flat.

I just blew my second set of headgaskets with ARP's installed. I have pretty much given up with the dealer doing this and am saving my money to do this on my own and do it right. Until then it's got stock headbolts (not my choice, warranty work) and stock tuning.

I'd definitely see if your mechanic buddy will let you take the heads to a machine shop to get them flat. He will probably tell you not to do this, as it says not to per Ford's instructions, but you can do it, just search on here and do some reading before you commit to anything and realize what you're getting yourself into. Nothing crazy, but the more info you have before hand, the easier and cheaper this process will be.
 
#16 ·
yea thanks alot im in a really tuff spot right now ........and now sure what i should do , im getting alot of different feed back ........ so i dont no what i am going to do ........
 
#17 ·
any more ideas / thoughts / input or suggestions ?????????:dunno:
 
#19 ·
I would do the head studs for sure. I would put up for the EGR delete though if you think you can get away with it.

Def. a tough position but if it makes you feel better I heart your truck. Even more that you plow with it.:nod:
 
#18 ·
if i was in your place i would check the heads for flatness (do not mill the heads ,replace them if they are warped ) ford does not even give a spec for milling them and the finished used on the heads is not easly duplicated , replace the gaskets , and put head bolts in it . thats what i would do to mine .
 
#20 ·
I would no way put bolts back in. Ask scruffy here(this site) what he would do. Hes one of the best techs in the, area 20 plus years.
I wont argue, i am done posting to this. Studs are better, Big time.
i am pretty sure .003 to .004 is ok to cut the heads. I could be wrong on this. Granted brand new heads would be great, if free. But huge dollars if you are paying for them.
Shoot scruffy a pm, Thats close to his sig its like scruffy626 or something. He has the big blue lifted 03 in his sig.
 
#23 ·
I have a question for him myself and his S/N is not found when searched.....whats up with that. it was scruffy626 but no luck even when looking up scruffy.:dunno:
 
#24 ·
here is the ford specs right out of the wsm


NOTICE: Avoid running the tip of the Feeler Gauge Set into the Gauge Bar (or straightedge). This may cause damage to, or distort the tip of, the Feeler Gauge Set. The result may be inaccurate readings.

NOTE: If the Gauge Bar is not available, use a calibrated straightedge that is calibrated by the manufacturer to be flat within 0.0127 mm (0.0005 in) per running foot length, such as a Snap-On® GA438A, or equivalent.

Place the 0.1 mm ( 0.004 in) feeler gauge on the cylinder head at one of the specified locations. Then place the Gauge Bar (or straightedge) on top of the feeler gauge. Lightly press on the center of the Gauge Bar (or straightedge) while checking the measurement.

Attempt to pull the feeler gauge out from under the Gauge Bar (or straightedge).

NOTE: If a location is measured to be out of specification, verify that all carbon deposits that may influence measurement accuracy have been removed with a brass scraper and re-measure.

NOTE: The cylinder heads used on the diesel engine cannot be resurfaced. Do not attempt to machine or resurface the cylinder heads.

If the 0.1 mm ( 0.004 in) feeler gauge can be easily pulled out from under the Gauge Bar (or straightedge) without resistance, the cylinder head is out of specification and must be replaced.
Repeat the cylinder head distortion measurement at each of the 13 locations shown.
 
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