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WVO temp questions

6K views 41 replies 8 participants last post by  mankypro 
#1 ·
I'm running all bio now, and want to convert my front tank on my 97 to veggie oil. I'm looking at using and arctic fox heat exchanger along with a heated filter and inline exchanger.

What temp is the best to run WVO at?

What's the best way on a homebuilt system to measure the fuel tank temperature?
 
#2 ·
Hi El Rojo,

I've home brew converted a 1984 6.9l IDI and an 01' PSD Excursion. Both have been converted pretty much the same way. Couple of hints:

1. the oem fuel selector valve on your truck is pretty fragile when handling WVO. They're know to fail. They're known commonly as Pollack valves.

2. I would replace the 6 port Pollack with 2 3-port Hydraforce valves or some other equivalent as they are proven to work fairly well at the temps we're talking about.

3. There are different schools of thought on heating the tank itself. I subscribe to heating just the portion of the tank nearest to the fuel pickup - in the case of an Artic Fox it acts as the pickup as well as the heater I have one in my rear 45 gallon on my f-250. Many folks mount them horizontally with the idea that they would be more effective keeping the whole bottom of the tank fluid. I mounted my 14" with extension vertically and it works a treat. I do not burn PHO and my winter WVO is skimmed off the tops of my containers - only the most fluid of the fluid oil makes it into my tank Nov-March.

4. The replacement fuel selector valves should be mounted in the engine bay which will require making some space and a mount for them. Most folks recommend running completely parallel fuel systems, so you can switch in the case of failure.

5. On my IDI I deadheaded my mechanical pump and filled it with some light oil to keep it well lubed as a backup. And placed two electric diesel pumps along the frame rail - one pushes WVO and the other #2.

6. I would suggest you look into making a hose in hose "HIH" coolant jacketed fuel line for your wvo to go from your wvo frame rail mounted filter to the engine bay.

7. In the engine bay you should loop your return line using your selenoid valves so that you are always returning warm wvo into the loop which will save you some btu's.

8. I would suggest the use of a 26 plate FPHE in the engine bay as well - and in my case I also have VegTherm Mega 1500w 30a electric fuel heaters inside the loop. The 97' is HEUI I believe so you need not worry about thermally shocking your injector pump. many folks with IP's run both diesel and wvo through their FPHE's that way the fuel when switching is always within a few degrees presumably saving you the cost and aggravation of a shattered IP shaft.

I learned all of this after much, much reading, practical experience and toil, I thought I'd share it with you even if you didn't ask for it :)

To answer your question it would seem to me, and my OA seems to prove it out that somewhere in the 160F pre fuel rail temps work well and are easily achievable. I have a thermocouple from a coolant temp gauge in line right before my fuel enters the rail to tell temps.

Hope this helps.
 
#3 ·
ON systems that I have bought and built, I have never really cared about the tank temp. It is far more important to concentrate heat at or near the FPHE and filter. Heat to the tank is only necessary to keep oil flowing. In addition, dont expect the stock fuel pump to handle WVO. The FASS WVO pump is the pump of choice for me. Parallel ststems are prefered by me because clogged filters can happen.

Again, as I have posted numerous times before in this and other forums, it is far more important to build and design a "filtration" system of some sort before converting. I use the work "filtration" for lack of a better word. I don not filter. I centrifuge. In most systems filtration does not remove water. Water removal is the most important thing to be concerned with.
 
#4 ·
#5 ·
Install a Hot Fox in your front tank, a coolant heated VO filter, a flat plate heat exchanger and a Vegtherm Mega 12v heater for the final heat boost.

160-180*F pre-fuel pump

The fuel tank temp is of ZERO concern. The Hot Fox will always suck up heated liquid oil and it will be heated more as it travels through the heated components on the way to the injectors. It's best to monitor the fuel temp just before the fuel pump. That's where my temp sender is...just after the Vegtherm.
 
#6 ·
I would have to agree with all the suggestions you have gotten thus far except i would suggest you try to reach 180* temps in your oil. That whay if you experience heat loss in the winter - which you will depending on your location - then your still at a safe temp.
 
#7 ·
thanks everybody for all the information.

1. i never really thought about the Pollack valve being a problem, but that's something I'll replace too then.

2. I'm thinking about using braided hydraulic hose for the lines? good idea? I like the fuel inside coolant line idea a lot too, as I'll be in Vermont this winter using it.

3. I'll do the looping, as I ssee that could make a really bid difference.

4. I was planning on adding the flat plate exchangers indie the bay somewhere to keep things hot. The 97 is HUEI



Do the hot foxes work as a fuel sending unit for my gauges, and do the allow fuel to be pumped though them? Do I still need the pump in the tank?
Which pump will the FASS replace? The lift in the valley or something else father back the line?
 
#10 ·
Would I need to drill another hole to install the sender? Does the fuel pump in the tank do any work with the hot fox installed?
 
#23 ·
The opposite. You leave the stock sender intact but drill another hole to accommodate the Hot Fox. Just make sure that where you drill will not interfere with the sender float. You just cap off the two stock fuel ports since they won't be used. And with the looped return only one fuel line from the tank is used, the supply.
 
#11 ·
there is no pump in the tank. if you talking fass, thats usualyl installe don the framerail and the fuel lines are spliced into it.
 
#12 ·
So fass mounts on rail before or after the fuel tank switcher?
 
#13 ·
On my setups I pull fuel from the tank, through the filter, through the pump - from there it is pushed through the FPHE to the solenoid valves. On my IDI the FPHE is plumbed in to heat both diesel and wvo to avoid IP failures from thermal schok - not necessary in a HEUI system.

My filter is on the frame rail and my pump is 6" from it on the same frame rail.
 
#14 ·
That sounds like a good route to go.

What size hot fox for 1997 model in the front tank?
 
#16 ·
if you put the pump between teh valve and the tank you could wire it up to switch on when you switch tank. but if it were me i would put it between the port and motor, the way i see it, no reason not to have a good in there.

i would imagine you could repalce the stock pump that way...
 
#17 ·
On on first "Greaser" 95' F250, I had a looped return with a 6 port Pollack valve. The Pollack valve failed, so be sure to pick something different than that.

The problem with the looped return, is the second you suck even one bit of air in the system, its trapped there. Honestly its not worth the trouble trying to keep all that heat up in front and having to deal with the air trapped situation. Because the second you get an air bubble trapped in the fuel pump, you will know it in a hurry, and its a PITA to get it to run right again. :doh:

With the OBS/pre superduty 7.3s the issue is you cant dead head into the cylinders like the 99+ and 6.0 models. So unless you move the Fuel pressure regulator on the diesel side to the pump side, you dont have available ports to run veggie directly into the heads, and have a truely parallel system.

Another point to make and verified by DFA. The cylinder heads do a great job of heating the fuel since the fuel ports are cast right in, so as long as the WVO gets to the heads at least 130-140, and your engine is fulling hot, it will flash the WVO to +160 before it gets to the injectors. :thumb:
 
#19 ·
The tank I was using was a 1st Gen Golden Fuel Systems tank with a side pickup, and maybe I was prone to trapping air, and it wasnt fun getting it out.

I will also say you are lucky with your pollack valve, and yes my 2nd one that failed was a chinese knock off, but mine was near the engine so it saw hotter fuel temps.

I am just stating that there are better options than the pollack so if you are building a system save the headache in the beginning. :thumb:
 
#20 ·
I am just stating that there are better options than the pollack so if you are building a system save the headache in the beginning. :thumb:
Agreed, but back then that was the 6 port valve used most often. My Mercedes has two hyraforce valves which are also trouble free.

So when yours failed were you on VO? How did you change to diesel prior to shut down to protect the injectors? Having to shut down on VO is my worst nightmare...but I always wake up in the nick of time. :hehe:
 
#21 ·
Hheynow, I have the same as you except it's a 250 and I didn't have a tape but I think it's got the Sam tank as yours.

So the fass pump is acting as a lift pump on the line to help out the one in the valley?
 
#22 ·
is hte stock valve on the obs a pollak? 6 ports?

if so, are there any better plug and play replacements?
 
#26 ·
thats exactily my setup without the hotfox. i run pho mostly and it works great in the summer. when winter sets in, i cannot run it unless i find non-pho. if i have the good stuff it runs in the winter just fine.
 
#27 ·
Sounds about right. I would suggest more heat - e.g. the Vegtherm - but depending on your climate you may be OK.

Now. You need to know that the Pollack valve WILL FAIL AT THE MOST INOPPORTUNE TIME POSSIBLE, like at midnight, on 800 miles into a 1200 mile trip, with a truck full of family, dogs, hauling a 16ft trailer 100 miles from the nearest truck stop. And it will fail with the return in locked to your full fuel tank and the draw on your empty one. Don't ask me how I know this.

:doh:
 
#28 ·
yeah, i need to change it. i figure ill do that when i make the other mods.
 
#30 ·
Thanks for all this info. I'm gonna order the parts tonight for the the conversion.
 
#34 ·
I am looking for a truck and hope to find a dual tank setup but there are hard to find. I am loooking to build my own setup not buy a vegistroke kit. $3,500 is just insane. It would take a really long time to make your money back on that. I am not saying they are not nice but at some point you have to do the math.
 
#35 ·
A good home made system that will not leave you on the side of the road will cost you close to 3 grand, period. And at 3500 for a kit, u will recoupe your mony in probably a year ( if u drive much) so I don't see how that is insane.
How much do u drive.... Let's do the math.
 
#36 · (Edited)
With an OEM 2 tank truck you would need the following, to duplicate the setup on my f-250 6.9l which has probably about 12k on waste oil, my PSD is built much the same way...

Arctic Fox Hotfox ~$185
Home made HIH ~ $150.00
Wix 24770 1-14 filter head as your wvo filter ~$21.00 - you might want 2 if you plan on bypassing your oem fuel bowl in which case you'll also need something to take the place of the oem fuel filter like an aluminum cylinder that costs like $200.00 from plantdrive or have a plastic shop fab one up for you out of high temp plastic for $50.00 like I did.
WIX 33674 2 micron or CAT 1R0749 filter $10.00
~50ft of 5/8" high quality heater hose like Gates ~$75.00
~20ft of 3/8" J30R9 fuel injection hose ~$70.00
2 Hydraforce style solenoid vales or Omar Valves $100.00-$200.00
30 plate FPHE ~80.00
VegTherm Mega $85.00
A high quality WVO fuel pump like a Raptor $~300.00

So you're looking at about $1,200.00 in parts. Your system would be fully manual. You'd want to add fuel pressure and vacuum gauges and a fuel temperature gauge as well. That and a three way toggle like this one.

By the time you're done you'll know your system like the back of your hand.

Now. You could head over to DFA and get their Simple VegiStroke for $1,900.00 - it's quality stuff and the crew is beyond reproach.

Your choice.

p.s. keep in mind that the kit as described above has a ton of heat in it. You may be able to get away with less depending on your local weather.
 
#37 ·
I gotta agree with Manky. A well thought out homemade kit with quality parts will last and will be a fraction of any kit price. With what I know today I can assemble the PlantDrive components for a fraction of what I paid them. My Mercedes custom two tank I put together for just under $1,000 and has the best components money can buy. The second tank + hotfox were about $500. The balance was for the coolant heated VO filter, injection line heaters, HydraForce valves, dash switches, relays, gauges, hose, fittings and wire. But for newbies it may be better to get a kit with directions. :nod:
 
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