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in line oil cooler

6K views 68 replies 15 participants last post by  djmaguire 
#1 ·
This is the whackiest thread I'll ever start sober... I hope... But.. I'm considering it.



I'm going to install a bypass oil filter w/ 1 micron amsoil filter... My egr is missing, I've dumped the flaming trash can, and after several runs from Blackstone, seem to have zero dilution issues... There is really no sense in NOT doing the bypass filter, as it is basically the cost of two oil changes, and will have paid for itself by 20k miles (extra two changes because primary filter should be changed at least every 10k even with bypass filter)... The bypass is a done deal... I've researched the crap out of it.. and, I keyed in on one lil thing I can't let go..... :

Many folks who've placed a pressure sender at the filter housing are registering 40psi at idle, and off the scale of a 70psi gauge at highway cruising speeds. With all that pressure, it makes me wonder what else can be done with it..

after installing the bypass coolant filter, I've noticed a delta between the oil and coolant that wasn't there before. It's only a couple degrees, bringing a total greatest delta I've ever registered on a warm engine in this thing to around five degrees, and normally only two off, bit I can't help but figure it's due to the extra exposure the coolant filter has being mounted under the passenger floorboard.. so, I figured the oil filter will likely do near the same thing... But there is another issue too with the coolant filter being where it's at- it's in the way of where the bypass oil filter is designed to go.. which led me to this inline cooler...

They aren't near as expensive as you think they'd be.. I was figuring on using two.. one to, and one from the bypass oil filter housing, pushing it further back the passenger frame rail, on the outside opposite the exhaust pipe.

So.. two three foot long 2.5" diameter coolers, using all that pressure available, and shedding temperature.... It doesn't sound like a bad idea on paper, huh?

I've sought out results from reviews, and these things are used for all kinds of different uses.. transmission fluid, steering fluid, air compressor cooling, hydraulics on heavy equipment, all kinds of places where space is tight or a lengthy run of hose could be better used as a healthy run of cooler exposure. One fella swears he's dropped 40* off of a transmission using a 14" cooler to, and another from the eternal oe stacked plate cooler... I wouldn't expect that, but.... 40* total drop from inlet of the first cooler to exit of the final one, and that representing 10% or so of the total oil flow, would equate to at least six degrees or so drop, no?

Am I missing something here? What would be the issue if any? Another plus: it will clean up the entire bypass install, as the hoses can drop pretty much straight down after the doghouse to the rail...

Thoughts?
 
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#3 ·
Drew... Seriously, you have come up with some of the... Most interesting?... Things, yet some of the most useful.

I don't have much input for this, but I am curious to see where it goes.
 
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#4 ·
Z, there isn't any way they're more efficient than a stacked plate or even a tube and fin directly in the airstream, but, they're more efficient than just a naked line, right? If I've gotta make the run to the filter housing, why not take advantage of the goofy things instead of just a line, they'd certainly be more rigid, right? And pressure drop doesn't look to be a problem... Worth monitoring, bit not a problem I don't think... Oil pressure is definitely not an issue with these things..

Crazy, my wife hates all my hair brained schemes... But, surprisingly, many of them work out. :)
 
#6 · (Edited)
Well, I'm.gonna do this... Already bought the bypass kit, bit haven't decided on the cooler length, yet.

The thing is, I've never once seen my oil temp above 205... Not once... never seen more than five sustained degrees difference between ect and eot...

We use delta's to determine oil cooler health, and folks, that may be folly. Especially If you're not really working the system hard. Engine oil can operate at a sustained 280*, and can see 310* in short bursts before it starts to break down.. a matter of fact, hitting 210* isn't a bad thing at all, as it burns off contaminants quicker at hot than medium temps. Point being, I ain't so sure this rig needs any extra cooling... More to the point, though, extra cooling and not letting the temps hit at least a sustained 195~201* is a bad thing. It sludges quickly when it doesn't have opportunity to burn off contaminants that allow it to sludge- primarily blow by gasses.

So... I may tweak this idea of mine, but it'll be dependent on cost. I'm thinking about placing the coolers downwind of the bypass filters, and installing a 12vdc normally closed switch activated solenoid valve, or maybe even temp activated... To only push oil through the cooler when the oil breaks a certain temp.

If infinity that way, and set the value to 210*, and by having oil sitting inside the coolers, presumably at ambient temperature, and likely the volume of a quart or two, I'd have instant dropping of oil temps by introducing the cooler oil as well as cooling the oil behind it....

But... We'll see how this works.on paper and after it passes the calculator test.
 
#8 ·
So... I may tweak this idea of mine, but it'll be dependent on cost. I'm thinking about placing the coolers downwind of the bypass filters, and installing a 12vdc normally closed switch activated solenoid valve, or maybe even temp activated... To only push oil through the cooler when the oil breaks a certain temp.
I would think a manual switch would be the way to go while you're "experimenting". Once you have tested it and decide at what point you want the coolers to activate you could then have it temperature activated, perhaps with a manual override to engage it under certain conditions like heavy towing :dunno:

Do you have a link to the specs on those?
 
#7 ·
another thing just to mention for all readers to calculate
is the reason we eagle eye the EOT /ECT is not so much to worry about the effect of the temps on the oil but as a warning that the oil cooler is not working as it should and may have diminished coolant flow due to blockage
so the EGR cooler may be getting a trickle and that is where some real issues can evolve

so if I had decent deltas or an EGR delete (complete) i wouldn't spend time on the external bypass cooler unless I was screwing around and that is understandable as well
 
#9 ·
This is the whackiest thread I'll ever start sober... I hope... But.. I'm considering it.

...

I wouldn't expect that, but.... 40* total drop from inlet of the first cooler to exit of the final one, and that representing 10% or so of the total oil flow, would equate to at least six degrees or so drop, no?

...
My brain caught the rough estimate. I hope that nobody minds some calculations. I always like a hard estimate if one can be gotten.

I am going to put the equations here rather than just put an answer. That way, anyone who is interested can duplicate it for other applications (or correct it, if an error is spotted!).

I won't feel bad if everyone just skips to the answer!

Assumptions:
  • Oil system capacity = 15Q
  • We are saying 10% is going to bypass, so...
  • Un-bypassed capacity = 13.5Q = 0.0128m^3
  • Bypassed capacity = 1.5Q = 0.00142m^3
Knowns:
  • Density of motor oil = 848Kg/m^3
  • Thermal energy (q) = (Mass cooled or heated)(deltaT)(Specific Heat)

To keep it easy, lets use the following temps (sorry for using Kelvin instead of Fahrenheit. The specific heat and density that I grabbed were in metric units):
  • Ts = 360K = 188F = our original EOT
  • Tc = 340K = 152F = what is coming out of the bypass cooler - 36F lower
  • Tf = unknown final temp

So...

qin = qout

(Mass cooled)(deltaT cooled)(Specific Heat) = (Mass heated)(deltaT heated)(Specific Heat)

Specific heat drops out, giving:

(Mass cooled)(deltaT cooled) = (Mass heated)(deltaT heated)

(Mass of 13.5Q)(Ts - Tf) = (Mass of 1.5Q)(Tf - Tc)

(848 x 0.0128)(360K - Tf) = (848 x 0.00142)(Tf - 340)

(10.85)(360K - Tf) = (1.204)(Tf - 340) -> (3907.5 - 10.85Tf) = (1.204Tf - 409.4) -> 4316.9 = 12.054Tf

Answer: Tf = 4316.9/12.054 = 358.1K = 184.9F


That means that - if the cooler provides a 36F drop on 10% of the system oil capacity - it will reduce the overall temperature by 3.1F. Not quite 6F, but nothing to squawk at.

It'd be nice to know the BTU/hr rating of the cooler, but they rarely give those. The reason that it is nice to know that is because the factory oil cooler has about 100,000BTU/hr of cooling capacity. So, if you know the cooling capacity of the cooler that you are adding, you immediately know the relative percentage of cooling that it will provide.

Hope this helps.

...and, yes, I know that @Jason99 is going to give me crap for this! :haha:
 
#12 ·
those are great calcs but I cant see a 36* degree drop from the inline cooler
I didn't come up with that number, @ZMANN! I'm just the grunt mathematician, here! :)

I honestly don't know what can be achieved in terms of Tout-Tin using the cooler described. I have no specs.

For the OP or anyone else interested in this, it might be better to look at the calculation this way:

If someone wants 3F of cooling for a 188F starting point, then they need to find a cooler that gives them a 36F delta. ...and more cooler = more cooling.



Too much alcohol the night prior multiplied by reading @djmaguire's post three times equals a huge hangover squared :hehe:
Now, that's some funny stuff right there!!!
 
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#11 ·
Too much alcohol the night prior multiplied by reading @djmaguire's post three times equals a huge hangover squared :hehe:
 
#14 ·
Yes to testing. Calcs are fine and all. I like real numbers.

@ZMANN, another thought... If you do this, you might consider routing the bypass line into the cab and then putting the cooler in... a cooler. When you have beer in there, you will need to add a bit more ice. But, you can more-or-less guarantee a 36F differential.

...and, when the mood suits you, you can skip the ice and load it with pizza or - if you are really pushing it - a pot roast.

The Powerstroke 6.0 Car-B-Que is born!
 
#15 ·
Dang, Maguire, that's some bad arse calculating... I once provided security for some nuclear physicists... Had to baby sit them for five days.. they entertained themselves by presenting each other with equations and playing a highly intellectual game of 'stump the chump'... I was as baffled by them as I am you, and your post reminded me of that... That's a good thing, and I thank you for sharing.

There is one issue, though, with your calculations. And if you can figure this out, you'll further impress me...

The calculations aren't static, they're dynamic. There would be an exponential drop that would taper off and stabilize. The calculated drop would have to be expressed in BTUs, and w/o much concern for temperature unless you wanted to take a snapshot of a specific point, no?

Zmann, I doubt your see a forty degree drop either... That came from a claim I read where a guy said so... However, if I went with two three foot coolers, that is the likely linear equivalent to a single huge tube and fin cooler, less the ability to sink heat with air. It's nowhere near as efficiant as a stacked plate, which redirects the oil into tiny passages where the heat won't overwhelm the sink material. A rough guess, and this is just for you Maguire, being a rough guess and all, is an expected 20* drop, as the tubes are somewhat in the airflow running on the frame rail, but also that the frame rail itself could provide some sink. I'd think it safe to say 20* on a bypass of 10%... Or, to speak more carefully, a ten percent drop in oil temperature passing through the cooler on one pass.
 
#16 · (Edited)
...

There is one issue, though, with your calculations. And if you can figure this out, you'll further impress me...

The calculations aren't static, they're dynamic. There would be an exponential drop that would taper off and stabilize. The calculated drop would have to be expressed in BTUs, and w/o much concern for temperature unless you wanted to take a snapshot of a specific point, no?

...
Your observation is an excellent one, @drewactual. While I did go the way I did because of the missing BTU spec, the fact that it is dynamic shouldn't really matter much. The engine is continually adding heat. The cooler is continually removing it.

I actually see it reaching the same equilibrium - although in a much more complicated way.

Good stuff.


Edited to add...

I did just see that this is in the 6.4 forum. The 100,000BTU spec is for the 6.0. I am not sure what the 6.4 is, although it would not surprise me if it is very close.
 
#17 ·
I've got all the parts together... Just need some fittings, now, to make this happen.

After calculating and considering, I really don't think this is going to make much difference at all... What will make more difference is the added volume of oil... That filter is enormous and will hold at least a quart and a half, and the two 3' 2.25" coolers will likely add another quart and a half... Three quarts added with surface area for cooling on a bypass flowing 32oz a minute, dropping maybe 20* tops, is just a drop in the proverbial and literal bucket, and I'll be surprised if it drops over all temps even two degrees.

Instead of having steel braid covered soft lines running to the bypass housing, I'll have rigid aluminum lines of considerable capacity... That's pretty much the only thing that will set mine apart from others.
 
#18 ·
I've got all the parts together... Just need some fittings, now, to make this happen.

After calculating and considering, I really don't think this is going to make much difference at all... What will make more difference is the added volume of oil... That filter is enormous and will hold at least a quart and a half, and the two 3' 2.25" coolers will likely add another quart and a half... Three quarts added with surface area for cooling on a bypass flowing 32oz a minute, dropping maybe 20* tops, is just a drop in the proverbial and literal bucket, and I'll be surprised if it drops over all temps even two degrees.

...
Thanks for doing this and reporting. Numbers are just numbers and there are lots of variables. It will be interesting to see what you get.
 
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#20 ·
I bet your correct in your estimated cooling effects being negligible

my FS bypass is a big heat sink and adds capacity I also picked up capacity by removing the OEM oil cooler from the HPOP reservoir

never noticed any changes significant but I see no reason not to have a cooler as it may benefit in a area you wont really be testing for like a long hill climb while towing
 
#23 ·
Quite a few have converted to an external cooler that I've seen. I might be mistaken, but didn't the van 6.0s come with an external cooler from the factory as well? Or something along those lines...
 
#25 · (Edited)
I'm always to blame... I've got stacks of shot glasses that say "drew's fault".... :)

Yeah, not really worried about cooling... My rig isn't in trouble... Basically fooling around and using hard lines for the oil as opposed to soft lines, which call themselves coolers- and because my coolant filter is in the way of the place I'm sposed to mount it. They're three feet long so I can push then three feet back the rail from where they're intended to go by design.

 
#26 ·
I had brought this up with my 6.0 a couple years ago. But I was talked out of it. BUT,it keeps on haunting me. So Im gonna watch and see what you guys do/think. (just please do it and post the actual #'s so I can quit thinking about it...)
 
#27 ·
There are all kinds of uncertainties, here. And it will be very hard to pin down any gains.

The oil is returned to the dog house, drips into the gallery, and into the pan.. where it rests momentarily before being sucked back up the pick up tube and directly into the pump- where it passes through the oil cooler and filter before it goes past the pressure and temperature sensors.... It has a long time to warm back up, in other words. The question is if the bypass returned oil is cool enough to pull heat off the sump oil, or, if any temp drops are instantly negated when it hits the head and drips down through the valley.

In other words... It's just not a good place to return cool oil. It needs to be cooled after the oe cooler (which it is) but reintroduced pretty much just past where it was collected, and before the pressure and temp sensor.
 
#28 ·
You've nailed it Drew, even if you return the oil to the oil pan, by the time it gets back up through the oil cooler it's at the coolant temp. I've installed an Amsoil dual gard and returned the oil through the filler cap with no change in oil temp that I can see. I think it might make a difference in total heat load on the engine with the cooling effect of your cooler, but hard to tell really. It doesn't hurt in trying though:)
 
#30 ·
No difference... Notta.. now, as I posted prior- there may actually be cooler oil being introduced, and that cooler oil is being added to the doghouse where it drips over the rockers on the odd bank, and down into the valley and ultimately the pan, but... I wager its warmed back up by the time it hits the pan.

My IR heat sensor is on the blink, needing new batteries I'm sure, so I couldn't get a good reading. I can say that the inlet to the coolers is noticeably hotter than the outlet (heading back to the doghouse), bit again, not sure how much it matters there.
 
#31 ·
Are you trying to reduce overall oil temps? Or apply cooler oil to a particular location?

I would definitely think any increase in the cooling capacity is a good thing, although it would probably take significant increase to see a decrease in temps under load.
 
#32 ·
I don't need the extra cooling, per say... A matter of fact I should be getting my oil above 200* more often to burn out contaminants... This whole thing started when I was researching to install a bypass oil filter, and realized my coolant filter was in the way.. as a response of that I decided to push the oil bypass housing further down the frame rail, and figured hard lines would be better than soft lines, which led me to the inline coolers.

Revisiting this, though...

I'm surprised about the volume of flow through the bypass filter.. there is more than I would.have expected, but not so much that intercepting it is harming flow throughout the rest of the engine. It is enough to make me wonder about the function of the spring loaded bypass valve, though... But anyway: I may have come up with a way to slow it down some without stopping it, and if I have, I could get a lot more cooling out of it... I'll hold my peace until it's installed and tested, though.
 
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