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done with rotella.....

34K views 231 replies 38 participants last post by  strokinpower 
#1 ·
For years I've used t6... The last time I poured it in my rig, I screened chunks of junk out of it. Had I not been using a funnel with a screen, I'd never have known it. Add to that the silly high aluminum counts the uoa return, and that ought to be enough warning for me.. so.. t6 is out.

Searching for a new oil that will suit my needs, and my God are there choices and all grades of places to fall into a rabbit holes never to return.. but, I pulled the trigger.

The final four choices were amsoil 15/40, red line 15/40, mystik 15/40, and Schaeffer 15/40.9000...

The mystik, though a bargain brand, is apparently highly regarded and works really well in an engine that doesn't have emissions crap... It meets required ratings, and supposedly has shear strength of some group three oils... It's a good buy, and something I wouldn't hesitate to put in a fleet truck I intended on stacking hard miles on, running strict service routines on.

The amsoil, no matter how prestigious, doesn't have a certifying rating... And that worries me.. it's all about consistency from batch to batch, and with nobody looking over their shoulder, maintaining that consistency is solely up to them..

Red line was my second choice.. it's high dollar stuff, and great for extended intervals. It has a magnesium compound that provides ridiculous shear strength (film) which is great for protecting hot spots such as rings and rocker tips.

I went with the 9000 Schaeffer's. It has all of the finer points of the others, plus 3 free oil analysis's..

I'll report back what my engine thinks of it in 5k miles... I think, on paper, this is the better choice for me. I should have added in royal purple as well, as that one (believe it or not) was on the final list too.

Point is, though, watch your reports on the T6... If you see high aluminum counts, you can thank the jerks at she'll for reformulating w/o announcing such, and the QC gang for letting product through with whole chunks of whatever those chunks were in their final packaged product... I find that supremely disappointing, as I thought ibhad an oil for the life of the truck.
 
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#2 ·
I will have to check out those oils. For the last two oil changes I have used delo 5W-40 synthetic. It seems to work well. Do you have to order the redline or schaeffer online or is there a store that sells it?
 
#3 ·
Man that is disappointing. I've been using rotella t6 for years. However, I just switched to delo 400 (chevron) to test it out since I've seen other members using it with success. I have a sample of t6 sitting on my desk, and once I go 5k miles on this oil I'll send them into black stone to be tested. The delo 400 is only a few cents more than the t6 at Wally World, so no significant price difference, and it's at every Walmart so it's readily available everywhere.
 
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#4 ·
i think the chunks are falling in the funnel from under his fingernails

LOL

i read a post with his issue a while ago and i also use a screen

I have done 20 oil changes so 80 bottles of T6 and never anything but oil
went through the screen
and my Blackstone has never had elevated Aluminum so I will keep using it

but I will say they don't have tamper evident tops and thats a concern

if I lost confidence in T6 I would look for Delo as it can usually be found locally the other specialty oils are not my cup of tea
 
#6 ·
Delo was considered... The zddp was a caution to me... Seems that is older school of thought, where the zinc wears and leaves the phosphorus, prompting a spike in immunoassay testing and telling you to change oil... That's well and good, and a beneficial tool, but the elements start to polorize and compete for metal surface area, and chasing each other away... Short story: it's freakin great oil, until it wears, and if you aren't test stripping it (immunoassay) you don't know 'when' it goes bad. Depending on use and climate it may be 50hours and 3000miles, or it may be 120hours and 8500miles... The ash left unbound in the system when it's worn will polish anything it comes into contact with.. not good.

The Schaeffer and the red line are specifically formulated to not do that.

I ordered it off dahweb... I think a case of 6 gallons was $160 or so.. red line was $199.. hell, T6 at my local shop costs $100 for four gallons, so... The Schaeffer is about the same price.
 
#7 ·
Zman, you're in Zona, right?

I suspect your demands are different than mine, and I know your environment is hugely different... Your concerns are dust, likely, where mine is water infusion from humidity and it's affect on the compounds, as an example.

I'll tell you this- if I lived in the great white north, I'd use mobile one... The stuff just flat pours at sub zero temps, where others are like pouring honey at the least, and grease at the most...

From where I sit, literally, and what I use the truck for, the red line or the Schaeffer seems to be the better choice. If I didn't use the truck every day, I may have looked closer at the amsoil marine/diesel or the royal purple, with the amsoil the clear leader between the two.
 
#9 ·
yup AZ so moisture is not a concern and with the CCV I hope none accumulates

i run T-6 5-40 year round it just works in all climates i may cross
mobile one is pricey but I would run it if it was comparably priced I would also run Delo if autozone had it and i didn't always seem to have a gallon of T6 sitting around waiting for the next oil change LOL
 
#10 · (Edited)
One number I watch for a turbo motor is Flashpoint'
Mystiks is 431 F.
Schaeffer is 437 F.
Delo is 392 F.
and
Rotella T6 is 422 F.

These numbers came from the manufacturers websites.

Where is Mystic and Schaeffers available?
I would welcome comparing prices and I like the slightly higher flashpoints.

Now to compare them to a very expensive Red Line oil , its flash point numbers are almost 500 F. !!! but you sure pay for that at over twice the price of Rotella. $50/gallon.

My 6.0L only cools down (pyrometer) to about 380 for shutting down so to keep the oil safe I need a pretty good Flashpoint number..Delo is out, way to low. The others are tolerable and I feel safe using them. Red Line would be best but I am just too cheap to pay the price for it.
 
#19 ·
You do realize that EGT temp and Oil temp are 2 totally different things right. If your oil gets anywhere near 392 F you have much bigger issues then the oil flash point. Even in the turbo. The housing cools quickly down after shut off and the oil in the turbo that hasn't drained back never sees temps that high.

I will say what I have noticed on the last several 6.0's I have studded. The ones running T6 had some stiction on all the spool valves. Not a ton or even enough to notice a stiction issue, but it was still there. Then there were the 3 trucks that were running Delo. These trucks all had ran Delo since the current owners purchased them. ALL of them had 0 stiction/wear on the spool valves. The cleanest spools I have seen to date on trucks that all were pushing 130k plus. All 3 of these rigs stick to 5k intervals religiously. I will also say that I haven't touched T6 since I tried it in my 6.0 and had issues. Switched back to a standard 15w40 and issues went away. In this 6,4 I run the same oil I was running in the 6.0 at the end of owning it. Its a Full Syn 5w40 with friction modifier added to it already. I also run 5k intervals. I know that I could probably go longer especially with an oil test, but I stick to 5k's for peace of mind and ease of scheduling. I have NEVER once heard someone tell me that there engine or trans for that matter, failed from too clean of oil.
 
#11 ·
Not saying it lacks... Saying that push/pull benefits of oil are specific to use.. I'm going to change my oil every five thousand miles regardless of use (unless I've obviously contaminated it).. The way the delo (and some others, to include the mystik I spoke of) approach it is based on wear, and wear is based on use which is environmental and purpose, right? The delo or any other oil that approaches from that angle will give up the characteristics you want based off your use. It could be quickly or take a while... It could be that your engine is very well protected for a 5k mile interval, or not... So.. I choose to use an oil with a different approach to the same problem, which is a magnesium content.. same goal, different approach- less chance for water infusion to speed up the zddp compound, and hella shear strength that is greater than zddp benefits, especially as the oil ages..

Give me a few on the test strips.. I'm typing from a phone.
 
#13 ·
Mystik can be had at most agricultural shops... Used mostly in farm equipment as their target market.. Schaeffer off of Amazon shipped six gallons for $160...

The blue fuel oil looks good, but its expensive and I can't find anyone who's used it or much info about it..
 
#15 ·
I had 15W-40 Amsoil Diesel/Marine in my 7.3L and have it in my 6.4L powerstroke. Using a bypass system no matter what oil you pick is the key to clean oil and longer intervals. The guys at Exxon will tell you Amsoil is their pickiest customer for base stock. I have tried all kinds of oils and I always go back to Amsoil in the end . . . just my .02
 
#17 ·
I've not used it, yet.. but I use immunoassay strips everyday at work for past twelve years... So long as they aren't exposed to extreme temps, they are good as a cursory test- not a substitute for confirmatory analysis. They'll tell you if you've coolant, fuel, or soot infiltration, which is indication something isn't right (especially the soot for our concerns on a healthy engine)... If the zddp is breaking down, you're zinc will have been expended and leaving phosphorous, and you'll see heavy acidic ash which is bad for anything metal (if I understand that right).
 
#20 ·
Toren302,
So the oiled shaft in the turbo cools quick enough to not expose that oil to the high temps?
I'm not hell bent on any particular just would mlike to use whats best without throwing money out the window.
your observations are surely noted .
 
#21 ·
Yes, basically.

When the truck is shut down the heat from the exhaust quickly dissipates and the housing will be hot (to the touch) but nowhere near 390F....unless the vehicle was shut down say after a heavy haul up a pass or several Dyno runs without a cool down cycle. At worst tho this will create coaking. Where the oil burns, but with no oxygen it sludge's up basically. That's the other thing about flashpoints. They need O2 to actually light. In a sealed system like a motor there is not much of that, there for no real danger with it flashing.

Also on the EGT thing, remember that the temp at the manifold is always higher then at the turbo. Usually a 200degree difference from at the manifold to the outlet of the turbo. I.E. If you let the truck cool the EGT's down to 380 before you shut it off then most likely the turbo will be around 250ish.
 
#22 ·
friction modifier already added to engine oil ?

and i would have to question the t6 and the stiction on the injectors for two reasons

one is the synthetic is not supposed to contain the and the second is to blame the t6 you would have to have had it in the engine from the first fill because while synthetic does not have the properties required to create the deposits that cause stiction it doesn't contain the solvents to dissolve existing deposits thats why Archoil and such have a market in the 6.0
 
#23 ·
Logic is kinda flawed there bud.... The 3 Delo trucks were not bought new. They were bought used. One at 30k one at 75k and one at 80k. Since those owners purchased them, they have been running Delo 15w40 purchased at Costco. My observation is simple and by no means gospel. It is that the spool valves on the Delo running trucks are spotless, and on the trucks that have been running T6 there is clear signs of coaking and stiction. Take it for what its worth. Again just what I have noticed. Been keeping track for curiosity sake.
 
#25 ·
YES coking is what I was referring to. Maybe my logic of the coking temp and flashpoint temps being the same is flawed...my mistake on that part.
I will hafta get out my infrared thermometer and compare the pyro gage temp to the temps i shoot on the turbo.
 
#26 ·
Coaking usually happens when the truck is shut off at a high temp and allowed to sit. The oil then burns on the metal inside and sludges up the internals. If allowed to cool or just normal driving and shut down its fine. Like I said before most of the time it happens on like a long pass pull and then someone pulls into a rest stop and just shuts the truck off with out letting it cool down a little.
 
#28 ·
I don't think its as much to worry about, but its still something to think about. I have been wanting to switch away from shell oil for a while now. Was going to use Mobil 1 on the next change just to see how the truck likes it. I had the typewriter noise for about 450 miles with this last oil change. It is the first time I have had it, and its the second time I have used T6... Considering what people are saying about the noise, any little air pockets that can cause a pop like that can't be good for bearings...
 
#223 ·
I had the typewriter noise
That's how you are supposed to describe that?!?!?

Anyway, I find I only have the typewriter noise when the engine is more than a quart low on oil.
 
#29 ·
It gives me no joy to bash a product I've used for years, but we're supposed to help each other here, right? As in trade unbiased information free of commercial interests... And t6 will never touch my rig again, unless I use the two gallons left over to soak lifters or something in prior to install.
 
#169 · (Edited)
Lots of good information here, this is my first Diesel, so I am really curious as to what the best oil is.. I have 5,600 Miles on the truck, It's on a 5K OCI, the last oil change was the freebie from the dealership, which is Motorcraft, I plan to run Amsoil and Motorcraft filters since reading posts here and I had good luck with Amsoil in a 2011 F150 with the 6.2L.
Even with Amsoil, I can't make myself go further than 5K on an oil change. I know some folks feel I'm wasting money, but.....
On edit: I'm driving a 6.7, I know this is in the 6.4L, just trying to garner what info I can on preferred oil.
 
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#30 ·
I just don't like the way it was sounding here toward the end of winter. I had a lot more engine noise after this last oil change. I think I am going to go back to a 15w40 as well... At least until the cold actually hits next winter.
 
#31 ·
Well, I just refuse to risk using it anymore.. if you took my screened funnel away from me, you couldn't pay me to pour it in.. then there is a decided trend in elevated aluminum counts when folks have it analysed... That speaks directly to its lack of shear strength, and allowing heat to chase it off. That isn't acceptable by any means.

So, time to move on.

Red line is straight badassery, but at a huge cost. The blue flame oil looks promising, but expensive and doesn't have track record by wide use- or at least what people will share, anyway. The amsoil is freakin fantastic for cold cling and protecting hard parts sitting long periods- especially in a marine environment. The Schaeffers seems to foot the bill, and is a group four oil.. The mystik, if I pulled a lot of miles and changed every week because of, I'd be using plain and simple... It's cheapr than T5...

By the way, that build up from using synthetics in high temp, especially gassers, is what we called Cajun crust.. It builds on parts such as lifter retainers/spiders, and it doesn't come off... Unless you switch to dino oil with certain detergents, then it'll come right off within a thousand miles- and clog causing collapse of every lifter it touches, scarring lobes, scratching cylinder walls... This is why marine gas engines, when they swap to synthetic after break in, never go back... Those gassers are high steady rpm engines under tremendous constant load at any engine speed, and that is a certain way to wreck them. Same could conceivably happen to a gas or diesel vehicle.
 
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