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Old 04-03-2014, 08:44 AM
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H&S shifting help

I am currently riding around on HD300 tune with late lock and get no more than 14mpg. (lie-o-meter and hand calculations match up). Have tried the early lock and got a little better MPG but don't like how it shifts.

In early lock TC doesn't lock up in 5th until 55mph which I see no benefit to me as I do 90% city driving which is around 50mph so my rpms in 5th are usually around 1800 so i don't see how that would help with fuel economy.

If i ride around on the early lock with a light foot will the shift points change any? Or would my best bet be to get custom tunes?
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Old 04-03-2014, 10:39 AM
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Load up the others and see what you like best. I drive like a girl so I lock in 4th on low
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Old 04-03-2014, 10:43 AM
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custom tunes FTW, but the best canned shifting for daily driving I liked S2M
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Old 04-03-2014, 11:12 AM
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I'm running S2M also now. Only been a few days. I was running S1M for about a month and like you, I do a lot of 50mph cruising, so it didn't stay put. It would go in and out of TC lock with a change of a few mph's.
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Old 04-03-2014, 12:36 PM
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I stay in the 300HD tune as well. Early 4th and 5th lock up, and I shift to 5th lock at about 52 mph. For me it works well. Living out of town, I usually keep it around 60 mph on the way home. I see about 12 mpg in town and can get about 16-17 on the highway (depends on head winds, hills, etc.) 75 mph speed limit on the freeways here kills the mileage.
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Old 04-04-2014, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drunk on diesel View Post
custom tunes FTW, but the best canned shifting for daily driving I liked S2M
Yea.. i plan on getting some custom tunes when i get the money. whos tune do you run?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_JRuss View Post
I'm running S2M also now. Only been a few days. I was running S1M for about a month and like you, I do a lot of 50mph cruising, so it didn't stay put. It would go in and out of TC lock with a change of a few mph's.
thats exactly what mine does. slow down just a little and TC will pop out
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Old 04-04-2014, 08:01 AM
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everyone is afraid of engine RPM, and equate higher RPM's with more fuel consumption... which is true... but not exactly true.

you fellers are talking about 4th and 5th t/c lockup, and the schedule for shifting- which is related directly to engine speed, and while speaking engine speed through known gear reductions (trans and axle ratio), it is directly related to speed... so, we say a transmission shifts at a given speed, when actually, it shifts at a certain engine speed and load ratio...... if the load is less, it shifts sooner- if you bury the throttle in any given gear the pcm tells the tcm to drop a gear to lever the required torque until it lessens engine load..

if you can follow all of that through my terrible attempt at communicating it, then you can follow this, too:

if an engine is loaded at 35% of it's capacity to maintain it's engine speed, and it decreases it's leverage by shifting to a higher gear- in order for that engine to maintain that engine speed using the higher gear (5th, t/c locked, let's say) it HAS to increase the engine load... so... for speaking terms, that engine load effort to maintain engine speed increases from 35% to 50%... you're running a gear higher, turning less RPM's to maintain the same forward speed as 4th gear provided, but your engine load increased- so... you are burning about the same amount at best, or even MORE fuel...

the 5th gear shift is a misnomer on either side of the scheduled shift, and possibly misdirection.. yeah, you're turning less RPM's, but you are likely burning just as much fuel... at the speeds selected for programming, it is the hinge that usually differentiates drivers and not trucks/rigs...

T/C lockup is another thing altogether- and the drop in RPM's is absolutely a red herring insofar as fuel consumption is concerned- it, imHo, should not be considered AT ALL when you're trying to drive economically.. the function of the locking device is to match engine RPM's to input shaft of the transmission's RPM while locked... it is a device to decrease what a lot of folks call 'torque amplification', but what is better described as 'torque INERTIA amplification'... when the t/c locks, the rpms of the crank match the rpm's of the input shaft, which decreases the motion and lessens the HEAT a transmission generates- that is it's purpose, make no mistake... it is a very nice little thing to protect the transmission when the engine can produce enough torque to carry the entire brunt of the truck+load. When the engine is stressed to maintain that comfortably, the computer unlocks the t/c and uses that 'torque inertia amplification' to it's advantage, and at the cost of the transmission generating considerably more heat.

you guys are speaking of engine speeds around 48~54mph, where the H&S schedules (canned) are set (again, it's easiest to describe it in forward speed, but it's actually an engine speed expressed in RPM compared to an engine load calculation- but also understand, those two items are mathematically bound- you give me overall drive gear ratio, engine speed, and if your trans is not slipping, I can give you forward speed, or give me any of those two and I can tell you the third with a certainty.. if you give me all three and they don't jive, I can tell yuo how bad your transmission is slipping) the differences in gear selection, t/c early lock or not, need to be tailored to the individual driver and their needs... you MAY find that locking later, in your case, saves fuel.. you may find that your engine produces plenty of torque for your average load, and you can lock earlier...

don't be afraid of the RPM's, though, and equate them to excess fuel consumption.. they are only cousins; they are not brothers.
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Old 04-04-2014, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewactual View Post
everyone is afraid of engine RPM, and equate higher RPM's with more fuel consumption... which is true... but not exactly true.

you fellers are talking about 4th and 5th t/c lockup, and the schedule for shifting- which is related directly to engine speed, and while speaking engine speed through known gear reductions (trans and axle ratio), it is directly related to speed... so, we say a transmission shifts at a given speed, when actually, it shifts at a certain engine speed and load ratio...... if the load is less, it shifts sooner- if you bury the throttle in any given gear the pcm tells the tcm to drop a gear to lever the required torque until it lessens engine load..

if you can follow all of that through my terrible attempt at communicating it, then you can follow this, too:

if an engine is loaded at 35% of it's capacity to maintain it's engine speed, and it decreases it's leverage by shifting to a higher gear- in order for that engine to maintain that engine speed using the higher gear (5th, t/c locked, let's say) it HAS to increase the engine load... so... for speaking terms, that engine load effort to maintain engine speed increases from 35% to 50%... you're running a gear higher, turning less RPM's to maintain the same forward speed as 4th gear provided, but your engine load increased- so... you are burning about the same amount at best, or even MORE fuel...

the 5th gear shift is a misnomer on either side of the scheduled shift, and possibly misdirection.. yeah, you're turning less RPM's, but you are likely burning just as much fuel... at the speeds selected for programming, it is the hinge that usually differentiates drivers and not trucks/rigs...

T/C lockup is another thing altogether- and the drop in RPM's is absolutely a red herring insofar as fuel consumption is concerned- it, imHo, should not be considered AT ALL when you're trying to drive economically.. the function of the locking device is to match engine RPM's to input shaft of the transmission's RPM while locked... it is a device to decrease what a lot of folks call 'torque amplification', but what is better described as 'torque INERTIA amplification'... when the t/c locks, the rpms of the crank match the rpm's of the input shaft, which decreases the motion and lessens the HEAT a transmission generates- that is it's purpose, make no mistake... it is a very nice little thing to protect the transmission when the engine can produce enough torque to carry the entire brunt of the truck+load. When the engine is stressed to maintain that comfortably, the computer unlocks the t/c and uses that 'torque inertia amplification' to it's advantage, and at the cost of the transmission generating considerably more heat.

you guys are speaking of engine speeds around 48~54mph, where the H&S schedules (canned) are set (again, it's easiest to describe it in forward speed, but it's actually an engine speed expressed in RPM compared to an engine load calculation- but also understand, those two items are mathematically bound- you give me overall drive gear ratio, engine speed, and if your trans is not slipping, I can give you forward speed, or give me any of those two and I can tell you the third with a certainty.. if you give me all three and they don't jive, I can tell yuo how bad your transmission is slipping) the differences in gear selection, t/c early lock or not, need to be tailored to the individual driver and their needs... you MAY find that locking later, in your case, saves fuel.. you may find that your engine produces plenty of torque for your average load, and you can lock earlier...

don't be afraid of the RPM's, though, and equate them to excess fuel consumption.. they are only cousins; they are not brothers.
Thanks for taking the time out and giving such a well detailed response. With that saying I'm going to try driving around on the early lock and see how it does
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