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Old 03-06-2013, 11:42 AM
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for those who've blown HGs w/ H&S

I hate to benefit from your loss(es), but maybe I can learn and keep from doing the same..

I'm not being critical, by the way.. just trying to determine the factors..

What was your LBF?
What were your defuels set at?
What was the age/condition/level of your coolant? .... Oil?
How often did you see 35+lbs of boost before they gave?
How hard did you generally run it before blowing them?
Catastrophically blown or happen w/o you realizing for a while?
EGR coolers in place or no?
What family of tune? What setting?
How much load, if any?
General altitude?
If catastrophic, ambient temperature?
Anything, or anything else you have to add I would most appreciate, too.. anything you figure may be a contributor to it happening..


Thanks in advance!!!

Last edited by drewactual; 03-06-2013 at 12:10 PM. Reason: added more questions..
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:59 AM
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for those who've blown HGs w/ H&S

This will be a good thread to have if we get good responses!


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Old 03-06-2013, 08:11 PM
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It is going to be hard to get accurate responses for your truck. Ford's specs on head flatness and etc is wayy to broad therefore some trucks will blow gaskets sooner than other under different circumstances and etc. The main thing to watch is boost and egts. Sustained periods of egts above 1450* and boost usually around 45ish and higher will cause them to go. While i have seen many trucks have probably 30+ WOT passes and driven hard never blow a gasket with aftermarket turbos pushing atleast 50lbs.

Also, one main thing is making sure your truck is up to operating temp before mashing on it
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Old 03-07-2013, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodBoy View Post
It is going to be hard to get accurate responses for your truck. Ford's specs on head flatness and etc is wayy to broad therefore some trucks will blow gaskets sooner than other under different circumstances and etc. The main thing to watch is boost and egts. Sustained periods of egts above 1450* and boost usually around 45ish and higher will cause them to go. While i have seen many trucks have probably 30+ WOT passes and driven hard never blow a gasket with aftermarket turbos pushing atleast 50lbs.

Also, one main thing is making sure your truck is up to operating temp before mashing on it
yeah, I understand that... if we can collect enough responses, though, we can hopefully detect trends.. if we can identify trends, we can build a list of 'rules', in hopes not to place the same or similar stresses on our rigs..
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Old 03-07-2013, 06:32 AM
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Its just one of those things you need to have money put aside for so when the time comes. You are more than likely not going to blow gaskets if you drive with sense for a while and make WOT passes all the time
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by WoodBoy View Post
Its just one of those things you need to have money put aside for so when the time comes. You are more than likely not going to blow gaskets if you drive with sense for a while and make WOT passes all the time
to show my hold card, I'm thinking most folks blow gaskets as a result of hard use over an extended period- as in, heads floated because head bolts are stretched as opposed to a catastrophically blown gasket.. I've yet to read about a single catastrophic blown HG here or elsewhere..

floating heads due to bad paired mating surface you can't control.. floating heads due to lack of QC of the bolts you can't control.. neither can you control if the bolts were installed and torqued correctly- but you can at least check that..

what I have seen here and elsewhere are pistons being cracked in half.. that speaks very well of OE HG's.. but honestly, I'd rather have a blown HG I can fix under a shade tree with the cab on than I would a cracked piston, which means the engine is coming out of there..

I'm thinking that HG's are blown by subtle stretches of the bolts over time, which attacks their elasticity, and allows them to stretch even more the next.. they don't have to break to cause a BHG, just enough to unseat the gasket ever so slightly..

so, this thread wasn't started in effort to help out folks that race these rigs, but instead for folks that run them sensibly..

here is where I'm going with it, and what I'm working with as an opinion-

the PCM 'shouldn't' allow you to load the cylinder pressure up enough to blow gaskets.. even canned tuning, though it presses the envelope further than OE, shouldn't toe that line either.. so, the only reason cylinder pressures will get high enough to either blow a gasket or crack a piston is if something is wrong- wrong like:

-stuck injector, which you can't help, but you can hope to prevent by using good fuel with decent additive, and removing air..

-bad torque on the bolts, maybe from the factory.. you can't help, but you can certainly check..

-bad mating surface on decks to face.. you can't help it at all..

-bad/incorrect information from key sensors, such as but surely not limited to the FRP(ICP)..

I could go on, but I'll spare y'all....

the H&S allows a pretty good range of defuels.. I know a person can't prevent all HG failures, but it seems to me these things are pretty dang tough to blow anyway.. I'm trying to amass reasons leading up to blowing them, and adjusting defuels to mitigate those.. I can't adjust for mating surfaces or stencil/shear strength of bolts, but I can adjust how much the cylinder is allowed fuel with or without proper readings from the various sensors... that, is what I'm aiming to collect by asking the question..
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewactual View Post
to show my hold card, I'm thinking most folks blow gaskets as a result of hard use over an extended period- as in, heads floated because head bolts are stretched as opposed to a catastrophically blown gasket.. I've yet to read about a single catastrophic blown HG here or elsewhere..

floating heads due to bad paired mating surface you can't control.. floating heads due to lack of QC of the bolts you can't control.. neither can you control if the bolts were installed and torqued correctly- but you can at least check that..

what I have seen here and elsewhere are pistons being cracked in half.. that speaks very well of OE HG's.. but honestly, I'd rather have a blown HG I can fix under a shade tree with the cab on than I would a cracked piston, which means the engine is coming out of there..

I'm thinking that HG's are blown by subtle stretches of the bolts over time, which attacks their elasticity, and allows them to stretch even more the next.. they don't have to break to cause a BHG, just enough to unseat the gasket ever so slightly..

so, this thread wasn't started in effort to help out folks that race these rigs, but instead for folks that run them sensibly..

here is where I'm going with it, and what I'm working with as an opinion-

the PCM 'shouldn't' allow you to load the cylinder pressure up enough to blow gaskets.. even canned tuning, though it presses the envelope further than OE, shouldn't toe that line either.. so, the only reason cylinder pressures will get high enough to either blow a gasket or crack a piston is if something is wrong- wrong like:

-stuck injector, which you can't help, but you can hope to prevent by using good fuel with decent additive, and removing air..

-bad torque on the bolts, maybe from the factory.. you can't help, but you can certainly check..

-bad mating surface on decks to face.. you can't help it at all..

-bad/incorrect information from key sensors, such as but surely not limited to the FRP(ICP)..

I could go on, but I'll spare y'all....

the H&S allows a pretty good range of defuels.. I know a person can't prevent all HG failures, but it seems to me these things are pretty dang tough to blow anyway.. I'm trying to amass reasons leading up to blowing them, and adjusting defuels to mitigate those.. I can't adjust for mating surfaces or stencil/shear strength of bolts, but I can adjust how much the cylinder is allowed fuel with or without proper readings from the various sensors... that, is what I'm aiming to collect by asking the question..
You said it. Ill say this and Ill be out of your thread, I have 50k miles on my truck. More than 48,500 of those miles are tuned, and more than 45,000 of those miles are running a +285hp to +325hp tunes. Mashing on the skinny some, towing with the +285 tune, etc. Stock head bolts, stock tranny, original OEM gaskets. No defuel settings or anything else. I drive with sense. Heat weakens metal. Inj Timing and boost effect cylinder pressure. Add high amounts of heat with high cylinder pressure is usually going to find a weak spot in a gasket.

If you feel your gaskets are fine right now, you dont see any puking in the degas bottle or anything, You can always go ahead and do studs 1 at a time right now to save you money.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:16 AM
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i've thought about doing the one by one thing... but there are issues with that concern me..

we've been learning from racers since old man ford, ain't no reason to stop now!!!

I'm simply attempting to nail down -known- cause/effect.. hopefully somebody with experience blowing gaskets on H&S will chime in..
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:45 PM
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Something that should be also look at is when using big diameter wheels, if you do 4 wheel launches, do brake/gas to spin/burn wheels or pre-boost. Conditions like these, put peaks of stress that finally have to be withstood by the components that conforms the combustion chambers (pistons, cilinder walls, heads/studs/headgasket/valves). Heavy towing with agressive tuners also puts excess of stress since the injection timing and time is being performed in such way that affect the expansion ratio and power per stroke by design. This condition imposes an additional load to a motor that is already compromised by the work being done.
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Old 03-07-2013, 04:04 PM
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I have a 2008 f250 and my head gaskets blew at 98000 miles. 45000 with h&s. I was running it hard on the newest update, doing the trans relearn. Hard to say what my numbers were, but my psi was 45,egt probly 1600, oil and coolant normal 195-200. Was doing well over 80. Hg was definently my fault. I ran it hard a few times thought it was bulletproof. Luckily I know a guy that knows a guy that knows a service rep at ford. Got it warrantied for 1500 bucks with studs, lifters, and oil cooler. Got a whole new respect for the truck. Hope this helps
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