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Old 10-19-2012, 07:46 AM
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Have I been ill informed?

Ok, so the information i received long ago was that ford and international parted ways after the 6.0 catastraphy. This has always seemed to be confirmed among ford enthusiasts. so i have been doing a lot of work on the 6.4 diesel and was more than shocked to see it wears an international badge. i know the 6.4 is based on the 6.0 but with many changes, so my question is why put a motor in your trucks that is produced by the same company you had a major fall out with just a few years before. any thoughts.
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:49 AM
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The international fall out wasnt until after the 6.4. The 6.7 scorpion is a ford produced motor, but not the 6.4.
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Old 10-19-2012, 08:02 AM
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???
The 6.0L is used in the E series until 2010 (I think) and the 6.4L in the F series until 2010. Some people will disagree with me but BOTH are excellent engines. The downside are the emission systems crap forced in the engines and the ridiculously long service intervals recommended by FORD but don't blame FORD / NAVISTAR for that... blame the EPA and the treehuggers.
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Old 10-19-2012, 08:33 AM
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Thats why I was asking. A lot of rumors were saying otherwise, but it makes sense.
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Old 10-19-2012, 08:36 AM
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It seems the 6.4 isnt too terrible a motor, so why wash your hands of international if you stuck it out through the 6.0. that motor has a ton more issues than the 6.4
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Old 10-19-2012, 09:57 AM
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The fallout was more due to a lawsuit between ford and navistar over the 4.4L overseas. Navistar had taken the 3.6 and said they could theoretically make a 4.4 by boring out the 3.6. Ford did that and claimed the engine and Navistar filed a suit about Ford 'stealing' the engine.


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Old 10-19-2012, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by CountryAggie View Post
The fallout was more due to a lawsuit between ford and navistar over the 4.4L overseas. Navistar had taken the 3.6 and said they could theoretically make a 4.4 by boring out the 3.6. Ford did that and claimed the engine and Navistar filed a suit about Ford 'stealing' the engine.


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Interesting story. It's amazing how much we learn everyday.
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Old 10-19-2012, 10:37 AM
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Ford and Navistar Settle Diesel Engine Dispute - PickupTrucks.com News

Ford and Navistar have settled a lengthy legal dispute over diesel engines.

The dispute started in January 2007 when Ford filed a lawsuit against Navistar, arguing that Navistar unjustifiably raised engine prices and had not been paying its share of repair costs for Power Stroke diesel warranty claims.

Ford said it had spent $1 billion on repairs and recalls to fix problems with legacy 6.0-liter Power Stroke diesel engines. Ford further contended that its purchase contract with Navistar allowed it to debit Navistar's invoices to recover those costs, which it had done up to $160 million after filing suit. In response, Navistar temporarily stopped shipping Ford its new 6.4-liter Power Stroke diesel engines and filed a countersuit seeking several hundred millions of dollars because Ford intended to introduce a new diesel engine that was designed by International Truck and Engine Corporation before its joint-manufacturing agreement with Navistar expired in 2011.

In a press release issued on Navistar's website, Navistar states the two companies will end their current diesel engine supply agreement effective Dec. 31, 2009. Ford will pay an unspecified amount to Navistar, but both companies will continue to collaborate on a range of other initiatives going forward.

Navistar will increase its equity stake in the truck- and parts-marking company Blue Diamond, which produces Ford-branded F-650 and F-750 medium-duty commercial trucks in Mexico. Navistar will also receive a majority stake in Blue Diamond's replacement-parts business. Both companies will continue their diesel engine supply relationship in South America.
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Old 10-19-2012, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by CountryAggie View Post
The fallout was more due to a lawsuit between ford and navistar over the 4.4L overseas. Navistar had taken the 3.6 and said they could theoretically make a 4.4 by boring out the 3.6. Ford did that and claimed the engine and Navistar filed a suit about Ford 'stealing' the engine.


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That was part of it but the biggest reason for the fall out was of the warranty issues on the 6.0l powerstroke. Navistar and Ford both agreed that they would equally pay the warranty claims on the 6.0 but Navistar refused to pay their share of the warranty claims because they said that Ford refused to follow their guidance on this engine. ( VT365 = International's version, 6.0l = Ford's, VT365 was rated at a lower HP and Torque rating off the production line than the 6.0 and Ford said no way no how even after International told them not to up the HP and TQ ratings and ford did anyways. Also International advised Ford to use a coolant filtration system on these engines along with not using the FORD GOLD COOLANT as it contains silicate and Ford did so anyway.)

If you look at the warranty claims and compare International's vs Ford's warranty claims you will see that International's is far lower than Ford's. International used the above information in court against Ford when Ford tried to sue International for warranty claims. Ford won the lawsuit and International had to pay their share of the warranty claims on Ford's version of the VT365. This is why Ford and International went separate ways.
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Old 10-19-2012, 10:40 AM
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Ford-Navistar corporate feud revs up with engine lawsuit - Chicago Tribune

Ford-Navistar corporate feud revs up with engine lawsuit
June 07, 2007|By James P. Miller, Tribune staff reporter
Navistar International Corp. has raised the stakes in its risky feud with Ford Motor Co. by filing a lawsuit alleging the automaker, a major buyer of Navistar diesel engines, is planning on making a diesel engine on its own with a design Navistar engineers created at Ford's request.

"Rather than honor its promises and contracts," the Warrenville-based truck and engine-maker contends in a complaint filed this week in Cook County Circuit Court, "Ford intends to use the [Navistar] International design and manufacture diesel engines itself, without compensation to International." International Truck and Engine is Navistar's operating subsidiary.

The new breach-of-contract suit, which asks the court to order Ford to pay damages of "at least hundreds of millions of dollars," adds one more twist to the surprisingly nasty spate of litigation that has broken out between the two companies.

For decades, Navistar has been the sole supplier of the hefty diesel engines Ford puts into its heavy-duty pickups. But, over the past several months, the relationship between the supplier and its crucial customer has soured.

Navistar asserts that Ford, which is under extreme financial distress, has begun to improperly squeeze suppliers such as Navistar, violating long-standing contracts.

Ford has consistently denied any wrongdoing and did so again Wednesday. Navistar's lawsuit is "without merit," Ford spokeswoman Kristen Kinley told Bloomberg News.

Ford, in fact, contends that it is the injured party.

The fight between the two companies became public in January, when the automaker not only began to withhold payments for the new-generation 6.4-liter engines Navistar was delivering but filed suit against the enginemaker in Michigan state court, alleging Navistar was overcharging for its engines.

Navistar countersued and briefly stopped shipping engines to Ford. The automaker promptly obtained a court order that obliged Navistar to resume shipments but also forced Ford to hand over half of the $160 million in disputed payments it had been withholding. Relations have been testy ever since.

In early May, Navistar raised the ante. Noting widespread speculation that Ford might be planning to develop its own diesel engine for use in its pickups, Navistar warned in its Michigan lawsuit that the company would seek $2 billion or more in damages if Ford tries to end its engine-purchase contract before it expires in 2012.

In the new suit, filed Monday, Navistar has unveiled an even more intriguing assertion: Ford is apparently planning to make in North America a smaller version of an engine it makes in Britain for sale in Europe. But Navistar says Ford is using a design that Navistar helped put together and that Ford had promised any North American production of the engine would be done by Navistar.

During a three-year period that began in mid-2000, the complaint says, International worked to design a new diesel engine for Ford under what the two companies called the "Lion Project."

The project, into which Navistar's International Truck and Engine group sank $11 million, was designed to yield an engine smaller in size than the extra-large V-8 diesels Ford buys from Navistar for its heavy F250, F350 and F450 truck models.

Navistar said its engineering team, working at the company's Melrose Park facility and at a Ford research site in Aachen, Germany, developed a workable prototype engine. At 3.6 liters, the engine was relatively small, the lawsuit says, and both Ford and Navistar acknowledged that the engine "would need to be larger than 3.6 liters when sold in North America."

In fact, according to the complaint, Navistar engineers "showed Ford personnel how the Lion V-8 diesel engine could be converted" into a larger version with only minor modifications.

The two companies agreed that Ford would build the proposed Lion engine at a factory in England under license from Navistar, but that Navistar would make the engine if Ford ever began producing the engine in North America.

Since then, Ford has been making the 3.6-liter engines at its United Kingdom plant and putting them in Ford vehicles sold in Europe.

So far, so good, Navistar says. But now, the company contends in its suit, press reports indicate Ford is developing a 4.4-liter V-8 diesel engine that it plans to begin producing in North America by late 2009 or 2010.

It appears, the complaint continues, "Ford has used the Lion design to produce the 4.4 liter ... by making the same slight changes that International's Lion Project engineers had recommended." And in violation of the contract it signed earlier, the suit says, Ford hasn't hired Navistar to produce the Lion diesels for North America. The suit says, Ford intends to build the engines itself, at a plant in Chihuahua, Mexico.
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