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  #11  
Old 05-04-2009, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03f250stroke View Post
true but if you talk to a tech they will say the newer trucks are in the shops more then the older trucks

i need to find the post from Scott (Scuffy) he was the one who said it
The post from SCUFFY is below (this is largely what I based my earlier post on):

WHICH MODEL YEAR IS BEST???

2003 6.0

"I work on these every day , I would own an early 03 model before an 04 or 05, I do less work on them than 04 mostly , but are not plagued with high pressure oil issues like the 05, I'll break it down even more by year and problems

2003 - rear main seal leak , some injector issues,an icp sensor may crack and leak also , the updates from ford have made better

2004 - several different oil leaks , some injectors issues , egr valve problems , a wiring nightmare , turbo sticking , head gaskets, egr cooler

2005 - every problems 6.0 ever had is seen in an 05 model, wiring problems were less than o4 but i do more work on 05 models than any other

06 and 07 , seen some slight problems but not bad at all "

Thanks Scuffy!!!

Last edited by bismic; 05-04-2009 at 08:03 PM.
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  #12  
Old 05-04-2009, 09:13 PM
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either way some trucks are just straight up lemons..its hard to say the best and worst. my dads 05 is GREAT but his friends 05 was lemon lawed 3 years ago

btw thanks for added that quote!
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  #13  
Old 05-05-2009, 04:02 AM
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This may be more than you are looking for, but here goes (I was not real organized it putting this together - there may be some repetition) ............

Differences between 03/04 and later model trucks

2003 mid-year Model Year Changes:
http://turbodieselforums.com/downloa...004%20Book.pdf

Part way through the 2003 model year, the turbo oil supply line changed in design.

The injector harness, which runs from the FICM to each of the eight injectors, is now routed between the oil filter housing and the
compressor housing of the turbocharger.

The orientation of the injector connector retaining clip has been repositioned in order to improve serviceability.

From the beginning of production, the highpressure pump cover retains a sleeve which provides a sealing surface for the o-ring on the high-pressure oil discharge tube.Mid-way through 2003 MY, the sleeve in the high-pressure pump cover was removed.
• The sealing surface for the high-pressure oil discharge tube is now totally machined for the o-ring seal.

Midway through the 2003 MY, the injectors were changed to a more robust design: The revised clevis in the injector improves the lateral support of the plunger and dramatically reduces injector scuffing.

2004 Model Year Changes:

The six M8 bolts on the upper oil pan which were placed in thecenter of the upper oil pan have been eliminated. An upper oil pan which has bolt holes
present should always be assembled with the six specified M8 bolts. Failure to do so will result in a vibration related noise caused from the upper oil pan vibrating against the bed plate.

The camshaft lobe separation angle, lobe lift, and duration have changed to improve combustion characteristics (Emissions).

The combustion chamber on the piston has been modified (updated bowl design).

Due to the design change of the piston, the glow plug has been made shorter by 1.2 mm. If the longer glow plugs are installed into an engine with updated pistons, glow plug to piston contact will result, ending in potential catostrophic engine failure.

The water pump impeller diameter has increased in size to 100 mm from 90 mm. Note: Both water pumps have the same bolt pattern, but a different sealing area. As a result, the smaller water pump has the physical ability to be installed into an updated front cover. If this is done, a coolant leak and over heating of the engine may result.

New FICM brackets have larger vibration insulators at each valve cover mounting point.

Beginning December 1, 2003 (engine build date), the GPCM(Glow Plug Control Module) bracket has been redesigned. The repositioning of the GPCM improves long term reliability of the engine wiring harness. Tthe engine sensor wiring harness and both glow plug harnesses have been changed. In order to increase the serviceability of the glow plugs, the glow plug buss bar has been replaced with a new glow plug harness. This will provide flexibility in the harness, to ease removal of glow plugs.
• In addition, the rocker-arm carrier has been modified to improve accessibility to the glow plug harness. The GPCM bracket was modified to accept the repositioning of the ICP Sensor. An earlier GPCM bracket will not work on an updated 2004 MY engine.

In order to accommodate the change from an internal crankcase breather to an externally mounted crankcase breather, the compressor inlet duct has been modified.

The crankcase breather was externally mounted on the valve cover because of the redesign of the high-pressure oil rail.

The intake manifold has been modified for the updated 2004 MY. The cross over section at the rear of the manifold has been eliminated.

The intake manifold is now equipped with an EGRTP (Exhaust Gas Recirculation Throttle Plate) and a EGTP solenoid added.

Three fins have been added to the turbine wheel of the turbocharger. These additional fins were added to the turbine wheel in order to improve the turbocharger’s sound characteristics.

The EGR cooler has been lengthened for the 2004 MY engine to make the exhaust gases to be cooler before entering into the intake manifold.

Because the new EGR cooler is longer than the original, the exhaust up-pipe is shorter in length at the EGR cooler connection than
the original up-pipe.

The turbo mounting joints have been modified. The mounting bolts no longer need spacers on the new turbo. A new turbo mounting bracket has been
implemented with the mounting bolt spacers incorporated into the bracket. These spacers are utilized to achieve the necessary clamp load on the turbocharger mounting bolts.

The high-pressure oil rail has been redesigned (wavy design) to increase oil capacity and to reduce noise through the high-pressure oil system. The new design wavy high-pressure rail has increased the volume from 15 cubic inches to 30 cubic inches. This reduces pressure fall-off during injection and improved emissions and fuel economy.
• The stand pipes’ serviceability has been improved.
The high-pressure stand pipe is a two piece pipe that is sealed to the high-pressure rail and high-pressure branch by o-rings. The stand pipe has a check valve inside to limit hydraulic disturbance (feed back from injector operation). Do not disassemble the highpressure stand pipe. This will cause damage to the internal components of the pipe. If at any point, a stand pipe is disassembled, discard and replace it.

There are two new high-pressure oil rail plugs introduced with the redesign of the rail.

The ICP sensor has a new gasket.

The ICP sensor is no longer located in the high-pressure pump cover. A brass plug will replace the ICP sensor.
• It has been relocated to the front on the right high-pressure oil rail.
• The valve cover and GPCM bracket sets over the ICP Sensor.

The IPR has a new removable heat shield wrapped around it to help block excessive heat from the exhaust.

For 2004, DLC (Diamond Like Carbon) Coated Plunger on the injectors:
• The injector plunger has had a DLC coating applied to it.
• The coating will further increase the robustness of the injector against poor fuel quality/water intrusion and will reduce the risk of internal scuffing.
• Note: This injector has different operating characteristics and can not be interchanged with non DLC injectors. Installing the incorrect injector could cause erratic or rough engine operation.


More 2004 Model Year Changes

2005 Update Page 01 Running Updates

A trap was added in the fuel supply line to prevent fuel from draining out of the secondary fuel filter housing. This fuel line cannot be retrofitted to earlier MY's.

The VGT control valve has been updtaed to include a 200 micron screen. This valve can be used on 2003 and 2004 MY's.

The size of the floating bearings in the rotating group of the turbocharger have been increased in length by 1mm.

The rear crankshaft oil seal has been updated.

2005 Model Year Changes
2005 Update Page 02 Turbo-Hardware-Horsepower and Torque
http://fordpowerstrokeforums.com/dow...s%20Update.pdf
What's New in 2005:
http://www.oilburners.net/brian/6_0psd/whatsnew2005.pdf

The HPOP changed to a V4 style piston pump

The HPOP pump cover was redesigned to a cast aluminum cover

The IPR is now mounted on top of the HPOP and not on the cover. This IPR valve is NOT interchangeable w/ earlier MY's.

The HPOP discharge tube and branch tube have been modified to
accommodate the pump change

The VGT control valve has been updated to include a 150 micron screen.

The length of the High Pressure Oil rail ball tubes has been increased by 2mm.

The coolant inlet ports on the front cover have been re-positioned to accommodate the new power steering pump design.

The EGR shaft seal has been improved and the return spring tension increased.

A scoop has been added in the exhaust up pipe to help flow to the EGR valve since the throttle plate has been removed from the air inlet of the intake manifold. The EGTP (Exhaust Gas Throttle Plate) solenoid was removed.

Two divider plates have been added to the intake manifold to provide equal distribution of cooled exhaust gas to both cylinder heads.

More 2005 Model Year Changes

The high-pressure check valve has been moved from an integral part of the stand pipe to the supply port plug. • The change began with engine build date October 28, 2004 and engine serial number 6426234 on Indianapolis built engines and 0174191 on Huntsville built engines. It can be useed on earlier MY's.

The engine sensor harness has received several changes during the 2005 MY. Most of the changes have been made to reduce chafe points and rovide more secure connections.
• One noticeable change is a new VGT control valve connector.
• The new connector will provide a more secure connection to the VGT control valve.
• NOTE: The VGT control valve did not change."

The Exhaust Pressure (EP) sensor has been relocated to the FICM bracket.
• This change requires a new EP tube and FICM bracket to be used.
• The engine sensor harness had to be lengthened to accommodate the new sensor location.
• NOTE: It is important to secure the nut on the EP sensor tube when removing the EP sensor.

The water pump pulley has been made more robust with the use of a thicker flange.
• The new water pump pulley design does not require the separate flange support plate as used on the previous design.

The three heat shields on the 2003, 2004, and early 2005 MY engines have now been incorporated into one large heat shield (in the rear of the engine)
The new rear heat shield mounting bracket will have to be removed to gain access to the IPR valve.

The early 2005 MY Excursions were equipped with the 2004.25 MY engines.
• Beginning January 2005 all Excursions will be equipped the the 2005 MY engine.

The Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor has been removed from F-Series vehicles with Federal calibrations beginning in November 2004.
• The Intake Air Temperature (IAT1) Sensor will be mounted in the same location as the previous IAT1/MAF combination sensor.

The previous style turbocharger bracket has been improved to make the engine less sensitive to moan/droan concerns.
This bracket was used on 2004.25 and early 2005 MY engines.
The current production turbocharger bracket has been made more robust by adding material across the center of the bracket.
• The new design minimizes the moan/droan concerns.
• The current bracket went into production on January 5, 2005 beginning with engine serial number 6470111 for Indianapolis built engines and engine serial number 0189356 for Huntsville built engines.
• NOTE: The current bracket is reverse compatible with 2004.25 and early 2005 MY engines."

A new Exhaust Pressure (EP) sensor went into production on January 14, 2005. The optimized EP sensor is available as a service part for 2003.25,
2004.25, and early 2005 MY engines which use different mounting threads.

The cylinder head is now manufactured without the four outer rocker arm carrier (RAC) hold down bolt holes.
• The rocker arm carrier (RAC) still has the bolt holes in the casting with no bolts installed.
• The reason for the change is the clamp load provided by the cylinder head bolts is sufficient to for the rocker carrier.
• This change began with engine serial number 6537996 on April 5, 2005 on Indianapolis built engines.

Also:

Front brakes upgraded and changes to coil springs.
The front rotors were upgraded in 2005: 1/2"" in diameter, 1/4"" in swept radius. The major factor was the change to a more rotor abrasive friction material which kept the rotors true, and therefore less warranty for pulsation. Slide pin changes were made in an attempt to solve the disc thickness wear issue, a path that was never needed. They could have kept the first generation design and the inclusion of the rubber bushing on the end of the bottom pin in the third phase was a return to the first design characteristic. The 99-04 Akebono calipers were not a good design and since 2005, Ford returned to K-H as the caliper supplier for the platform. Also, upsized hydraulic master cylinder and larger parking brake."

Quite a few cab changes (dash, back seat, boost gauge, tow command, etc) , grill, lights, etc.

2006 Changes:
HPOP support bracket for the STC fitting. I believe it came out in mid 2006. Later (in 07 IIRC) the fitting was replaced entirely with a redesigned piece.

Commonization changes beginning in Jan 2006
Are head gaskets new on 2006 6.0s ? - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums

The commonized engines didn't start until Jan 06.
"Subject: 2006 6.0L Diesel Power Stroke Cylinder Head Commonization
Effective Date: Ford Production Assembly Plants - January 11, 2006
Kentucky Truck Plant (Super Duty) & Lorraine Assembly Plant (Econoline)
Description:
Changes are being made to the 6.0L diesel cylinder head, head gasket, crankcase block, rocker arm carrier and injector hold down clamps for the 2006 Super Duty and Econoline Program. The action is taking place to facilitate/communize the International manufacturing process for the upcoming 6.4L program. The 2006 6.0L used in Ford vehicles after January 11, 2006 are being referred to as ""Commonization Engines"".
Part number details are provided on a separate excel spreadsheet. "

Figure 1 - New cylinder head
1. Carrier boss bolt holes M10 x 1.5
2. Injector clamp bolt holes (relocated)
The new cylinder heads have several casting changes including a slight injector clamp bolt hole relocation (2, figure 1) and the carrier boss bolt hole size and location changes (1, figure 1). New cylinder heads also use 32 mm cup plugs replacing the old 28 mm cup plugs.
The cylinder head gasket is also new to accommodate the new 20mm cylinder head location
dowels. Pre commonization head use 18mm dowels
Note: At this time the new cylinder head assembly is not interchangeable with the previously level head.

Figure 2 – Previous Level Cylinder Head
1. Carrier boss bolt holes M8 x 1.5
2. Injector clamp bolt holes (original locations)
Note: The previous level cylinder head assembly is not interchangeable with the new head."

Figure 3 - New Block Assembly
The new crankcase (block) uses two 20mm cylinder head locating dowels per head.
The old crankcase (block) uses two 18mm cylinder head locating dowels per head.
Note: The new and old block assembly is not interchangeable. This affects replacement of all 6009 short blocks and the 6010 bare blocks.

Rocker Arm Carrier:
Figure 4 - New Rocker Arm Carrier
Casting changes to the rocker carrier provide increased clearance for new injector hold down clamps (figure 6). The new carrier also uses only 2 bolts and locating dowels to attach the carrier to the head.
The new rocker carrier is serviced in a Rocker Arm Carrier Kit which includes the rocker carrier cover, gasket and necessary dowels.
Note: The new and old rocker arm carrier kits are not interchangeable.

Figure 5 – Previous Level Rocker Arm Carrier Kit
The old rocker arm carrier uses 4 attaching bolts to hold the carrier to the old cylinder head (figure 2).

Last edited by bismic; 05-05-2009 at 05:13 AM.
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  #14  
Old 05-05-2009, 06:46 AM
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manufacturers are always changing things and trying to make things better each year. Sometimes the new improved is not. If you compare the 6.0's history to the cummings you will notice it took almost eight years before they got all the ah ohs out but even then there were and still are a couple in the 5.9 cummings. Most of the 6.0's bugs were fixed in the first two years except for the head studd thing. Not sure the head stud thing is an issue unless you use a box or programmer and other performance options. Keep in mind even the cummings needs studs if its to live souped up. The early 6.0's did have a couple of issues but now they are know and good solid fixes are available i see no reason to shy away from any year if the price is right and with a mind to making the fixes if they havent already been done. The shorter turning radius starting in 05 in my estimation is a very nice upgrade.
Good luck
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  #15  
Old 05-05-2009, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03f250stroke View Post
true but if you talk to a tech they will say the newer trucks are in the shops more then the older trucks

i need to find the post from Scott (Scuffy) he was the one who said it
I'm sorry I should have clarified more. I was not referring to autos in general. I'm talking about individual series. Like the eng series for diesels. The first yr for 6.0 was a lil shady compared to the last, because of the improvements.
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  #16  
Old 01-23-2011, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bismic View Post
The post from SCUFFY is below (this is largely what I based my earlier post on):

WHICH MODEL YEAR IS BEST???

2003 6.0

"I work on these every day , I would own an early 03 model before an 04 or 05, I do less work on them than 04 mostly , but are not plagued with high pressure oil issues like the 05, I'll break it down even more by year and problems

2003 - rear main seal leak , some injector issues,an icp sensor may crack and leak also , the updates from ford have made better

2004 - several different oil leaks , some injectors issues , egr valve problems , a wiring nightmare , turbo sticking , head gaskets, egr cooler

2005 - every problems 6.0 ever had is seen in an 05 model, wiring problems were less than o4 but i do more work on 05 models than any other

06 and 07 , seen some slight problems but not bad at all "

Thanks Scuffy!!!
Thanks I am looking at an 2003 f-350 flat bed regular cab 4x4
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