ARP Re-Torque

[pjsf250]

to over torque

[ZIKA]

With the number of people on here and the number 6.0's on the road running studs. Does anyone have any examples of bad things happening when torqed to 240? Any at all?

[Tuscany]

My question to you is why are you so hell bent on torquing to 240 when it clearly states that 210 is what it calls for. ARP's are designed to not stretch and by over torquing past the recommended torque value you are essentially doing the same thing as a TTY bolt calls for when torquing it. TTY stands for Torque To Yield. That means torque until the bolt stretches to the proper torque value which is predetermined by the manufacturer. If you Yeild ARP studs than you will end up doing this job again.

Before ARP had the ultra torque assembly lube they recommended torquing to 245 ft/lbs because it was the only way to get the proper torque value needed for this application. Now that the assembly lube is here it essentially gets rid of the drag and binding friction between each piece during torquing and allows you to get the same final clamping force value as before but is a lot easier to do so because of the lube not allowing as much friction during torquing.

[ZIKA]

My thoughts are that the ARP stud is able to handle 240lbs of torque. If it wasnt, shops like Maryland and Innovative would put them there. My feelings are that my block is warped and i want to get those heads as tight as i can. i only expect them to last a season anyway.

The last time I did them, we torqued them to 245 with the ultra lube and that was the longest it ever lasted which was about 40,000. This last set of head gaskets had roughly 50 hooks on them and did ok.

In the grand scheme of things, I am getting a spare block to get machined and have sitting ready to go next winter along with freshly machined or new heads.

I dont mind doing the work, I rather enjoy it but I want these to last me the season. And in all honesty, if it doesnt. I'm driving it anyway whistling away.

I have I spent ten years at a Ford Dealer who did alot of truck work and have never scene coolant leak into the cylinder. Have you ever pulled the cap off of the degas bottle with blown HG's it pisses like crazy because its holding so much pressure which means that it only leaks when under heavy boost. Like when the converter is locked and under heavy load example 5th gear pulls on the highway or sled pulls.

I puit that BatMoWheel in and the truck now hits 34.9lbs of boost which you may or may not beleive becaue everyone says it is not worth ****.I picture the gaskets not lasting long at 210. I talked to a shop in Prospect OH and he puts all of his stud jobs to 250 and never had an issue and without exageration he has probably done 100 of them. I think he's even on here.

To sum it all up, I think my block is **** and I wasnt ready to pull the whole engine this time around but I will next winter. and in the mean time, I need all of the clamping force I can get. I heard of guys taking those custom age stud or the H11's up to 265lbs so it obviously wont hurt the head. I think the standard ARP studs are capable of handling 240-250 because alot of people do it. i drive with Erics race tune and like a 18 year old kid all of the time. The truck turns 2300 at 70MPH because of my 4.56's. I need all of the clamping force I can get!!!!!

Hell I even thought of coating the gaskets with aviation cement like CAT does with threre C15's to keep gaskets in them.

Basically my heads and block are **** and they will need done next year anyway. Might as well try to make themn last as long as I can anyway.

You may call me a hack, but I call me broke. i have a buddy who has been running blown gaskets for 4 years it has never leaked the other way yet.

Thats my ramble!

[snopro_03]

jeremy from diesel dr. will torque customers studs to 285 on trucks that are just getting studs swapped and not gaskets. For trucks getting gaskets and studs he will run them up to 250. I know he's ran them up past 300 with his own trucks. Is it the right thing to do? that i can't tell you who knows. I know he's had good luck with this and theres alot of guys that have done it this way without issue. Your not going to pull threads, stretch studs, or wreck anything at 250.

[ZIKA]

I heard the same thing. i think the shops that actually do these day in and out go to 240-250. i know i'm not the only one who is doing this.

[Tuscany]

Originally Posted by ZIKA

My thoughts are that the ARP stud is able to handle 240lbs of torque. If it wasnt, shops like Maryland and Innovative would put them there. My feelings are that my block is warped and i want to get those heads as tight as i can. i only expect them to last a season anyway.

The last time I did them, we torqued them to 245 with the ultra lube and that was the longest it ever lasted which was about 40,000. This last set of head gaskets had roughly 50 hooks on them and did ok.

In the grand scheme of things, I am getting a spare block to get machined and have sitting ready to go next winter along with freshly machined or new heads.

I dont mind doing the work, I rather enjoy it but I want these to last me the season. And in all honesty, if it doesnt. I'm driving it anyway whistling away.

I have I spent ten years at a Ford Dealer who did alot of truck work and have never scene coolant leak into the cylinder. Have you ever pulled the cap off of the degas bottle with blown HG's it pisses like crazy because its holding so much pressure which means that it only leaks when under heavy boost. Like when the converter is locked and under heavy load example 5th gear pulls on the highway or sled pulls.

I puit that BatMoWheel in and the truck now hits 34.9lbs of boost which you may or may not beleive becaue everyone says it is not worth ****.I picture the gaskets not lasting long at 210. I talked to a shop in Prospect OH and he puts all of his stud jobs to 250 and never had an issue and without exageration he has probably done 100 of them. I think he's even on here.

To sum it all up, I think my block is **** and I wasnt ready to pull the whole engine this time around but I will next winter. and in the mean time, I need all of the clamping force I can get. I heard of guys taking those custom age stud or the H11's up to 265lbs so it obviously wont hurt the head. I think the standard ARP studs are capable of handling 240-250 because alot of people do it. i drive with Erics race tune and like a 18 year old kid all of the time. The truck turns 2300 at 70MPH because of my 4.56's. I need all of the clamping force I can get!!!!!

Hell I even thought of coating the gaskets with aviation cement like CAT does with threre C15's to keep gaskets in them.

Basically my heads and block are **** and they will need done next year anyway. Might as well try to make themn last as long as I can anyway.

You may call me a hack, but I call me broke. i have a buddy who has been running blown gaskets for 4 years it has never leaked the other way yet.

Thats my ramble!

In all reality torquing your head studs to 240 with the ARP torque lube is most likely the reason your last set failed. You are stretching the stud by over torquing them. The guys that are building 1000 HP trucks are also using H11's and Custom AGE 625's from ARP that are designed to be torqued many times over again because the reality of it is most of these guys that do this rip the heads off multiple times a year to make sure the heads, block and pistons are in good shape.

The block may have low spots depending on how the first or subsequent jobs were completed and how the block surface was prepared before the head gaskets were installed. It is a good possibility, BUT over torquing the head studs will eventually lead to failure as well. It is your truck do what you want with it but I know if I had 5 failures with head gaskets and I was a mechanic at Ford for 10 years I would start to wonder what exactly what I was doing wrong when I performed the job.

[Babyboy70363]

Is the shops that are exceeding recommended torque doing it with arp lube? I know absolutely nothing about arp studs or the task of installing them, but working in the oilfield i can tell you there is a difference in wet and dry torque. Ill give an example of the difference.

We have shears that cut up platforms offshore. At one time we were torquing the bolts that hold the blades to 740ft/lbs of torque dry. We learned that during maintenance guys were breaking bolts trying to remove them because we were not using lubricant for installation. So we started using a thread lubricant and torqueing the bolts to the same torque. We found the bolts would actually work themselves loose during the job. Why? Without realizing it we were torqueing the bolts to yeild and actually reducing the clamping force under load. After extensive research, the torque was reduced to 480ft/lbs of wet torque and not a single issue since. Just some food for thought. At the end of the day, its your truck, and you are doing the work, good luck with whatever way you decide to do things.

[jetjock15]

740 ft lbs! My god, might as well just weld the two pieces together! How long was the wrench extension on that! Some craziness there!

[Tuscany]

Originally Posted by jetjock15

740 lbs! My god, might as well just weld the two pieces together!

LMAO I know right!!

Seriously though I work in the oilfield as well and they don't play around with torque values it is serious chit!