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Old 10-10-2012, 12:14 PM
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Arp stud process question

First off thanks in advance because everyone is always super helpful. So I have a 2006 f250 with a 6.0. I bought the truck after it was in an accident and I need to have the frame repaired. So most of the truck is torn apart. The guy I bought it from said he just put in a new oil cooler, egr delete and had the turbo rebuilt recently. Since its so far apart I wanna add some ARP studs. Can I simply pull out one old stud and then put in a ARP stud and torque it down and do this for all of them. Or do I have to pull the head all the way? As of now it has now issues this is just a preventive step. Also I believe ARP has a few different type is studs is there anyone you recommend?
Thanks again.
Dylan
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:18 PM
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You definitely need/want to pull the heads off. If nothing else, you want to have the heads examined for stress cracks, etc. I've heard of people replacing OEM bolts/studs one at a time (with dubious results...), but never replacing with ARP studs...
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:19 PM
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Have you driven the truck yet? If not how can you tell/know that the Head gaskets are not compromised. If it was me in your shoes I would step up and take the heads off, machine them, get new OEM head gaskets, Get the standard ARP bolts for the 6ohs and do it right while your in there the FIRST time.

To much regret, I will say I was in the SAME position as you when I got mine. It had engine problems and I replaced the whole engine... I thought about and decided against arps while the engine was out... Now a year later look at my sig picture (the heads are off and I'm doing ARP's)

It would have been SOOO much easier to do it while the engine was out or if it was taken apart already. learn from a fool, do it ONCE, do it correctly!!!!
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:21 PM
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Pull the head.

There is only one way I would do studs one by one.

And thats if the gaskets were recently done with TTY bolts and you have proof that they arent blown
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:22 PM
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We're probably gonna do my brother in laws 1 by 1.

But his gaskets and heads were replaced under warranty less than 1k miles ago
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:57 PM
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I just got done doing the 1 for 1 swap leaving the heads alone thing and here is why I went that route. I did not have the money to get the heads done if I did pull them. I do not know of a shop for 150 miles around that I would trust to do them. And knowing my luck the head would be junk and Id have to buy brand new ones anyway so back to the no money left after buying the full Bullet proof diesel oil cooler kit...And last but not least the heads were not showing sign's of failing,so I rolled the dice and went the cheap route.
Should I have done a full head job? Maybe who knows. Only time will tell. Good luck!
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Old 10-10-2012, 01:08 PM
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If I were in your shoes and didn't know the health of the truck I would do the full job rather than doing then one at a time. However if you are 100% certain that your gaskets are fine then you could do them 1 at a time.
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Old 10-10-2012, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselmatt View Post
If I were in your shoes and didn't know the health of the truck I would do the full job rather than doing then one at a time. However if you are 100% certain that your gaskets are fine then you could do them 1 at a time.
Id have to argue that the only way you would know for sure...is a visual inspection that could only be done by removing the head. Just to nit pick the point.
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Old 10-10-2012, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by kinnisoj View Post
Id have to argue that the only way you would know for sure...is a visual inspection that could only be done by removing the head. Just to nit pick the point.
In regard to the actual heads I agree with you 100%. The gaskets on the other hand, you know if they are blown.
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Old 10-10-2012, 05:53 PM
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So, after reading a bunch on this topic, and listening to people talk about them being warped or cracked or whatever, I can honestly say, that after literally machining hundreds of these heads, I can say that it's like the "occupy movement" haha, 99% of your heads are going to be cracked, and the 1% that's not...and probably 75% are warped, but less than .002", and the other 25% is wapred about .005" or less. That being said, Navistar calls the cracks "micro-fizures"...and says they're ok, and while this might be true, we don't send them back out with cracks...we always cut the crack out and press a hardened seat in the seats that are cracked (not a sales pitch). But I've never seen a crack on one of these motors that actually goes into a water jacket, not one. While the crack can lead to a burned valve, or loss of compression, even if only slightly, it's not like cracks in old school 350 chevy heads, or small block/big block ford heads that are likely to be cracked into a water jacket...these castings are think around the deck surface (much thicker than a 6.4 by the way.)

Anyway, what I'm getting at is of course the vast majority of heads evaluated by a competent machine shop can have some faults, but rarely ones that will keep it from running. Oh, and if you don't think that (10) 14mm bolts/studs torqued to well over 200 ft/lbs will make the head absolutely flat (or at least as flat as the deck surface of the block)...you'd be wrong. It doesn't take that much pressure to "warp" these things by .001-.002". So, from a mechanical standpoint, if the gaskets aren't leaking, and they carefully did it one by one, it should work, and yes, possibly even fix a slight leak, at least for a while. Still not "right"...and I'd still always recommend milling the heads, and much though it is impractical, mill the block to as long as we're talking about being perfect. (I don't think the ford techs at the dealership, or anywhere else for that matter are checking "RA-roughness average" or the surface finish, or straightness after they wire wheel the block's deck surface before they slap the new gaskets on)...and some of these trucks have had 2, and 3 sets of head gaskets on them.

All that being said, I might actually try the one by one approach when I dive into it to change the injectors. Sad, as the one expense that keeps people from doing it "right" is free to me (sorry if that sounds conceded, didn't mean for it to)...but if it works, it saved lots of extra time and work, if not, I'll really go through the heads the way they should be anyway. It worked for lots of other people.

sorry for rambling again...I gotta quite drinking...however this truck isn't exactly helping me with that, lol.
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