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Old 04-27-2012, 07:07 AM
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air to oil coolers

i hope this doesnt post twice i tried earlier but it didnt come up ill try to say the same thing
this is my first post on here
a little bit of info for you all, my personal truck has the water/oil cooler on it with a homemade coolant filter.
i rarely see delta above 8* from start up to towing usually during normal driving its between 0-5*.
i also have two trucks that i take care of that have two different air/oil coolers on them, one looks like its a homemade system with a thermostat, but im sure its a purchased product knowing the owner.
the other is from a very repuitable company with the cold weather kit
i am not going to mention any names as i dont want to offend any one here and the post is only info i have gathered in real world use
i have had a chance to drive these trucks for a week each both work very well, the complaint i am getting is the trucks are slow when cold (not missing or stumbling)less than120*ect
what i found on both compared to mine is that on startup the ect and the eot
are within 1*on start while warming there is a great deal of delta compared to my water/oil system so now i know it takes longer for thier trucks to warm the oil and i have something to tell them.
after finding this info i have a couple of questions for the gurus on here

1. do the aftermarket companies rely on the block to warm the oil on startup that is being warmed by the coolant?
2. if so then it raises the question do these engines need a cooler at all, based onthe warm up theory it should do an equally go job cooling?
3. we all know startup is the hardest time on the engine so if the engines are taking longer to warm is there more damage?

water/oil coolers are nothing new they are used in aircraft, f1,and many industrial applications because of its consistancy and they have unlimited money
let me know your thoughts and if anyone else wants to monitor there warm up times it would be interesting to see how it differs in different climates we are in ontario canada its been around 0*here 32f for the americans

i know there are some very smart people on here thats why i joined this site
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:41 AM
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has no one ever checked?
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Old 04-27-2012, 09:49 AM
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is nobody comenting because i'm canadian? lol
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Old 04-27-2012, 11:37 AM
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First welcome to the org. We don't discriminate against you Canadians. Maybe nobody with valid info to contribute has seen the thread yet. I am on all the time and I am just now getting to see it.

Anyhow, The water to oil cooler in the 6.0 is very effective at keeping oil temps under control. It helps warm the oil up more rapidly as you've noticed as well as cool things down. The issue with them is that if cooling system maintenance isn't meticulous they tend to clog resulting in serious down stream damage if not caught early. Read the links in my signature for more info.

The air to water coolers definitely take longer to warm up but eliminate the clogging problem and many people opt to go this way for peace of mind rather than worry about the consequences of a clogged oem cooler.

These diesel trucks need to be warmed up before being worked hard and shouldn't be pushed hard until the temps are stabilized. Below 120* the computer holds bad power to prevent abuse while warming up. In cold weather it is not uncommon to start the engine, kick it on hi idle and let it warm up for 15 minutes before driving. Plugging the block heater in when temps are below freezing will also help.
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Old 04-27-2012, 12:01 PM
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i do understand that these engines need to warm up, but my point is that the engines with the water/oil coolers are more effective in protecting the engine during warmup than the air/oil versions. personally i think that a new factory cooler is much more cost effective vs any other system when you consider the cost of the parts and the fact that there is most likely more engine wear in the air/oil system. even if you have to replace the factory cooler a few times the cost is still less than others without even factoring in premature engine wear. i also think and have experienced that once the cooling sytem is clean and you add a filter to a new cooler there is no more issues
did you read the part about weather these engines even need the cooler considering the air/oil systems rely on the block/coolant to warm the oil should it not work just as good to cool or do you think the results will be slower cooling as it is slower to warm?
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Old 04-27-2012, 12:03 PM
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i also see that you guys are four hours behind us so im assuming most were still sleeping or at work when i first posted
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Old 04-27-2012, 12:37 PM
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The oil cooler actually warms the oil when cold since the coolant warms faster than the iron block does. The air to oil systems rely on the block to warm the oil which is why it takes longer. Oil doesn't flow through the cooler until it reaches 180* or whatever thermostat you have says whereas the water to oil cooler is heating the oil as the coolant heats up. Yes I do believe that these engines need an oil cooler.

You are right that you can buy several oem oil coolers for the price of a quality air to oil cooler. Yes the water to oil cooler is a very efficient cooler. Yes once your cooling system is clean the oem cooler will continue to operate without clogging provided you are meticulous in monitoring/maintaining your coolant. If you are not your oil cooler can and will most likely clog again. If you are not monitoring oil and collant temp delta then you won't know you have a problem until you blow an egr cooler or the heads. Then the costs for repairs become significant. Also consider that in the oem cooler you have the oil and coolant running side by side separated by only a thin strip of aluminum. If or when that ruptures you get cross contamination of the cooling and oiling systems which is also an expensive mess to clean up.

I run one of those BPD oil coolers with the cold weather kit. It takes a little bit longer to warm up fully when it is cold. I run Amsoil synthetic 5w40 or 5w30 if we are having a cold winter. I am not worried about my engine protection while it warms up.
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Old 04-27-2012, 04:12 PM
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yes i agree with amsoil you should have no worries, mabee i should switch these guys over to amsoil and see if that makes a difference for them.

but i am still concerned as far as engine damage so far i'm sure it is very hard on both oil pumps with the motorcraft 15/40 that almost everyone uses around here. with the long warmup times have you had any injector problems like the top seal for the hp oil?

both these trucks have had multiple injector issues but other than that they both run great and are regularly maintaned

i was going to recomend going back to the factory system but i will tell them to try the amsoil first

the one trucks system by the time it got here to canada was around $8000.00, thats alot of factory coolers and the labour really isnt that bad if you look at it as maintinance like spark plugs and coils on a ford gas engine
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:07 PM
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The BPD oil cooler is well engineered and tested. By all means change them over to a 5w40 synthetic. if it's consistently below freezing in winter consider 5w30. The varnish that dino oil leaves behind is the most common cause of injector spool valves sticking and injector failure. Synthetic 5w oils eliminated this. You might try adding a bottle of Rev-X to the oil when you change it as well. First application calls for 2 bottles (8 oz) after that 1 bottle. The stuff is real slippery and cleans up varnish and stuff very quickly. If you are worried about engine wear this stuff should help. I don't see any reason to switch out a reliable air to oil cooler for the oem unit. Forget that they even make a 15w40 and get on with the 5w40 synthetic. Your engines will thank you.
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Old 04-28-2012, 10:49 AM
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i do understand that your cooler is well engineered and tested but i also understand that is only tested for flow and pressure to be within ford spec. agian i do not want to name any product because i think what i'm talking about is the same regardless of what brand of air/oil cooler it is. and i would have to believe that international probably spent much more doing thier engineering. i also believe that they forgot one very important spec. and that is how much time it takes for the oil to get to operating temp.(that means all air/oil coolers. it just makes me wonder why anyone would put at least 60 year old technology on a system to replace a proven system that is used by many manufacturers of very expensive vehicles, as far as the thin piece of alluminum you talked about that is what makes the system so good, if its good enough for ferrari, porshe,rolls royce ect. its probably good enough for these trucks. these water/oil coolers are all the sprint cup/nationwide race cars use its just in the rad like auto trans coolers.
i have worked on many race engines that also use amsoil(great products imo) that use a dry sump oil system and have in tank heaters for the oil not the coolant, the reason many expensive engines do this is because of getting the oil to operating temp as soon as possible which is my whole piont with this post i was just wondering on others thoughts on that?
i have installed many 6.0 coolers w/egr delete=filter those trucks never have problems after.
i think if your oil cooler is going to rupture to create a oil/water contamination you are already having other issues that created that situation

like i said i'm not bashing any product at all, just questioning whether any air/oil cooler should or shouldnt be on these trucks
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