OEM head gasket w/o buying the studs?? - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 01-03-2012, 04:58 PM Thread Starter
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OEM head gasket w/o buying the studs??

I've been reading a lot of issues lately about the VR and BO head gaskets. Not sure if this is just because more people have them now or what. In searching the web I can not find a place to just purchase a OEM head gasket without buying the studs with it. I have ARP and will be reusing those.



Anyone know where to buy the OEM FORD 6.0 head gasket without the studs?
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post #2 of 20 Old 01-03-2012, 05:09 PM
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post #3 of 20 Old 01-03-2012, 05:16 PM
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The OE gaskets I purchased locally had the bolts in it. My parts guy told me to throw them away when I requested gaskets without head bolts. It would be great to save the money that those bolts cost.

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post #4 of 20 Old 01-03-2012, 05:17 PM
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I wish you could get gaskets alone from ford but unfortunately that's not the case

anyone ever try international?

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post #5 of 20 Old 01-03-2012, 06:33 PM Thread Starter
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I've got the OEM head gaskets and bolts down to $145.12 per side, which is going to still be over $300 once shipped.

You're right, it's ridiculous to have to pay for the bolts which are not even going to be used. Why ford would make bolts that strech, makes me wonder where some of these ford engineers graduated from?? Wait... maybe this is by design...
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post #6 of 20 Old 01-03-2012, 06:47 PM
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Torque to yield headbolts are common on many engines....but should not be on stuff with this kind of cylinder pressure.

Here's a pipe dream, our 6.0s were so bullet proof that they only required oil changes and air/fuel filters, got mid 20's on mileage and made 500 rwhp factory. I feel dumb just having said that.

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post #7 of 20 Old 01-03-2012, 07:03 PM
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While I can't state for certain that it is "by design" it certainly makes sense from a consumer's point of view; bottom-line replacement cost in the event of a failure.

All materials yield, even Grade 8 steel is only 150 ksi capable. I guess ARP may even harden beyond Grade 8 requirements but steam pressures dwarf ordinary diesel compression. Steam drives locomotives with pressures in the range of 350 to 1,500 psi. The 6.0L has an 18:1 compression ratio. That equates to a minimum of an additional 6,300 psi on the head at the piston (95mm diameter, about 11 square inches) resulting in - get ready for it - an extra SIXTY NINE THOUSAND THREE HUNDRED pounds at each piston of which there are eight with ten bolts securing the head for an additional whopping 55,440 pounds on each bolt/stud. Grade 5 bolts are capable to 120ksi in tension while Grade 8 are capable to 150 ksi in tension. Keep in mind the steam is an additional load on top of the load created by compression ignition of diesel fuel.

The additional load from the upper limit I used in the example produces 237,600 pounds on each bolt/stud. It is very easy to see how bolts and even studs fail from STEAM introduction to the combustion chamber.

Even a safety factor of 2 using Grade 5 bolts (and the torque to yield bolts might only be Grade 2) would ordinarily ensure bolt failure before head deformation providing a salvageable engine with usable heads ($1,500 each I believe).

Makes sense from an engineering design point of view too, mathematically speaking.

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post #8 of 20 Old 01-03-2012, 07:11 PM
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You may need to dumb that down for some of us.

Thanks for the good info ...and for your service to our country.

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post #9 of 20 Old 01-03-2012, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by howell_jd View Post
While I can't state for certain that it is "by design" it certainly makes sense from a consumer's point of view; bottom-line replacement cost in the event of a failure.

All materials yield, even Grade 8 steel is only 150 ksi capable. I guess ARP may even harden beyond Grade 8 requirements but steam pressures dwarf ordinary diesel compression. Steam drives locomotives with pressures in the range of 350 to 1,500 psi. The 6.0L has an 18:1 compression ratio. That equates to a minimum of an additional 6,300 psi on the head at the piston (95mm diameter, about 11 square inches) resulting in - get ready for it - an extra SIXTY NINE THOUSAND THREE HUNDRED pounds at each piston of which there are eight with ten bolts securing the head for an additional whopping 55,440 pounds on each bolt/stud. Grade 5 bolts are capable to 120ksi in tension while Grade 8 are capable to 150 ksi in tension. Keep in mind the steam is an additional load on top of the load created by compression ignition of diesel fuel.

The additional load from the upper limit I used in the example produces 237,600 pounds on each bolt/stud. It is very easy to see how bolts and even studs fail from STEAM introduction to the combustion chamber.

Even a safety factor of 2 using Grade 5 bolts (and the torque to yield bolts might only be Grade 2) would ordinarily ensure bolt failure before head deformation providing a salvageable engine with usable heads ($1,500 each I believe).

Makes sense from an engineering design point of view too, mathematically speaking.

Jonathan
Sir, standing at attention of course, sounds like good info there... mechanical backround?

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post #10 of 20 Old 01-04-2012, 03:39 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by howell_jd View Post
While I can't state for certain that it is "by design" it certainly makes sense from a consumer's point of view; bottom-line replacement cost in the event of a failure.

All materials yield, even Grade 8 steel is only 150 ksi capable. I guess ARP may even harden beyond Grade 8 requirements but steam pressures dwarf ordinary diesel compression. Steam drives locomotives with pressures in the range of 350 to 1,500 psi. The 6.0L has an 18:1 compression ratio. That equates to a minimum of an additional 6,300 psi on the head at the piston (95mm diameter, about 11 square inches) resulting in - get ready for it - an extra SIXTY NINE THOUSAND THREE HUNDRED pounds at each piston of which there are eight with ten bolts securing the head for an additional whopping 55,440 pounds on each bolt/stud. Grade 5 bolts are capable to 120ksi in tension while Grade 8 are capable to 150 ksi in tension. Keep in mind the steam is an additional load on top of the load created by compression ignition of diesel fuel.

The additional load from the upper limit I used in the example produces 237,600 pounds on each bolt/stud. It is very easy to see how bolts and even studs fail from STEAM introduction to the combustion chamber.

Even a safety factor of 2 using Grade 5 bolts (and the torque to yield bolts might only be Grade 2) would ordinarily ensure bolt failure before head deformation providing a salvageable engine with usable heads ($1,500 each I believe).

Makes sense from an engineering design point of view too, mathematically speaking.

Jonathan
So you believe this may have been put in place to keep from damaging the heads? Makes sense, but from what I have read, the bolts strech from torquing them into place. I agree I would rather pay $350.00 for a head gasket and studs then $3000 for a set of heads. I guess I never thought of it in those terms.

Thanks,
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