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Mercon LV - Is it or Isn't it Synthetic?!!!

63K views 47 replies 20 participants last post by  ZMANN 
#1 ·
I am not trying to blow up the forum on a topic that has been beaten to death. I am trying to find a legitimate QUALIFIED source for the answer and I am being told by Ford it is NOT synthetic and read in other sources that are not Ford related that it IS synthetic. Do we have any petroleum engineers that could weigh in?

Again, sorry for beating this dead horse until is is already turning into glue, but I need to service my tranny and this makes a material difference in my approach. If Mercon LV truly is syn, then I'll use it. If not, I'm moving over to either Mobil 1 or Amsoil ATF.

Thanks in advance.
 
#2 ·
I'm not a petroleum engineer, so I'll defer to someone who is, but wouldn't a better question be "which ATF fluid--Mercon LV, Mobil, or Amsoil--has been shown in trials to perform best when it comes to cooling, wear, and shift quality?

I'm not trying to be impolite, I'm just curious why you're more concerned about the chemical base of the fluid than with performance of it. I assume your ultimate goal is to maximize the life and performance of the transmission, no?
 
#3 ·
You are not being impolite - you just unknowingly and gracefully proved yourself more intelligent, that's all!:doh:

Yep - you are correct on your assumptions for the most part. The point about the Mercon is that the dealer did a flush w/seal treatment at 50K (no filter change or screen clean) and I am intending on either a pan drop/'08 filter and pan install, flush with Mercon if it is syn. If not, doing the same only using a syn of a different mother.

Other than that, you are correct, your question really jumps out in front of all of that noise. I am usually towing so I need to pamper it with the good stuff. Anyone know the answers?
 
#4 ·
Mercon LV is not fully synthetic according to the MSDS (http://fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/main/msds/us179895us.pdf) as petroleum distillates are indicated in heavy and light grades. It may be a synthetic blend though since the range is open enough to provide for non-mineral stocks too.

Both LV and SP are the recommended fluids though...and they work well.

It bears noting that a drain-and-fill service will only exchange about 8-10 quarts of the nearly 18 quart capacity in the TorqShift transmission. It takes a heated flush to open the internal thermostat for complete fluid exchange...keep THAT specific fact in mind as many fluids are NOT compatible.

Jonathan
 
#5 ·
Jonathan:

First, thank you for serving our country! Do you know Seargent Major K.Andersen, MSG / 18z, USSF - bet not but you never know. Small world, especially for the bad guys. At least that's how Osama feels right now as he is roasting over an open fire.

Second, you hit the nail on the head the other reason I really, really, really want to know.

Regards.......Sir.
 
#9 ·
I am not a petroleum engineer either so I would defer to an expert who provides conflicting information to my own.

Ultimately though the 5R110 is a superb transmission, rugged and reliable. The recommended fluids are capable to 30k mile intervals AND both LV and SP may be mixed without concern (according to Ford).

The makeup of these fluids works...why try to fix something that isn't broken?..I do recognize that one of many Engineer Maxim is "fix it until it is broken and then replace it."

The used oil analysis from my own transmission services indicates better than average wear and my truck is a bit heavy.

Jonathan

P.S. I am glad to serve and I appreciate all the support from this community and all who support our forces - it takes the entire nation working together! - I don't know your friend from the SpecOps community and I agree about the close community size! They are true heroes!
 
#10 ·
The used oil analysis from my own transmission services indicates better than average wear and my truck is a bit heavy.
That is good to hear since your truck is one of the coolest server duty RVs ever made. A bit heavy:hehe:
 
#11 ·
After looking at this issue real hard, reading spec sheets and MSDS sheets I have come to the following conclusion. The Mercon LV works adequately if serviced at the regular recommended intervals. Amsoil low viscosity ATF is a full synthetic and I believe will provide superior protection to the Mercon. Redline D6 ATF is another synthetic which on paper would appear to be the best choice for eliminating the cold weather shift flairs that the 5r110 is prone to. The question becomes one of how much are you willing to pay.

I did not look into the Mobil1 so can not comment on it. I will be changing mine over to Redline D6.
 
#12 ·
Can you do a drain pan and fill with the amsoil ATF, will it mix with the mercon sp I have in my tranny now?
 
#14 ·
YES you can! I ordered 2 gallons of amsoil fuel efficient atf (blue cap) and dropped the pan, and drained about 8 quarts. Re-installed pan and poured in the amsoil atf. Shifts are smooth and quicker, solid, and engage without hesitation. So yes I have amsoil fuel efficient atf mixed with about 9-10 quarts of the mercon sp. I've been running this way for about 10k miles, not a single issue. I will do another pan drop and add another 8 quarts of amsoil to have 70-75% of amsoil atf.
 
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#15 ·
I'm currently wanting to do a transmission fluid change myself, and came upon this link, so it seems that just draining, and refill seems to be the most efficient way, albeit tedious for those of us that where hoping for a 'full' drain of the 18+ quarts/litres. I don't feel completely comfortable with the 'flush' idea, as I've heard good and bad on the topic, so I may just drain and add the Mercron LV every 15 K or so. My truck is mainly only used for towing purposes, and at that it sits a fair bit in between trips, so I doubt having to use Synthetic consistantly is wise....but in reality, I suppose that's not the way to look at it, as I do use Synthetic oil in my 6.4! At any rate, I'll do a drain of the transmission, drop the pan and change the filter, then refill. Pretty sure I have the SP in there now, but will change over to the Mercron LV now.
 
#16 · (Edited)
the heated flush is the most efficient way you can't argue about that

there are people who don't understand the process and say it can harm your transmission

the reason the 5r needs a heated flush is because the transmission bypasses the cooler lines until it reaches 170 ish rendering the normal DIY procedure useless

so the heated flush just heats the fluid to temp and requires the truck transmission brought to temp
then the procedure takes new fluid and puts it in to the system as it takes old fluid out

no back flush no chemicals no voodoo

with a 5k$ transmission I would stick to LV or SP the only other fluid I have used is Valvoline lv/sp approved Max life

that being said a pan drop every 15k seems ok and better than most folks do
 
#17 ·
Thanks!

I suppose it makes one wonder, with all those 'jiffy lube' type places around, knowing the specifics of doing a proper flush, isn't necessarily incumbent on the person doing it, as these places tend to hire some 'kid' with the ability to change oil, making the customer unsure of whom to trust! Then in many towns there is a 'transmission shop' on every corner....again, making one wonder whom to trust, in not knowing the abilities of those working there. Lastly, I suppose there is the Ford Dealer, where in most cases you would think they couldn't get it wrong, but most of us have heard stories there as well! Doing a proper flush requires the customer to have full trust in the abilities of the person/shop doing it, with that shop giving you the opportunity to choose the best available transmission fluid choices (regular or synthetic), whether you want the filter changed at that time, and then how much your choices will cost you! Seems easy, but I haven't come across any of those choices here where I live yet, thus the reason for doing my research. I bought my truck 'used' so I have no idea if/when the last fluid change was done (now at about 95k miles) and although it is working perfectly, would like to keep it that way, thus the reason for keeping my maintenance up. I do tow more than not, so keeping the heat to a minimum is paramount to me, which is another reason for thinking synthetic may be a reasonable choice.
 
#18 ·
I should have mentioned the " Ford flush procedure " done at a ford dealer
god knows what a Jiffy lube could do to you

last time i was at a jiffy i watched them put a 19 and a 17 inch wiper on our toyota ( normal sizes) on the wrong sides of the vehicle and i watched them close the hood with the dipstick sitting across the motor ( i shizt you not )

they pulled it out and said have a nice day I said not so fast get your manager


it is so bad that I have a Jiffy lube card in my wallet work would pay for the visit up to once a month I have never used it I pay for my own oil and filters and do my own work LOL

I had Ford do my flush and even after quizzing the hell out of them I still don't see how they get the 5r up 170*to temps ? i wasn't allowed to watch either but it took 2plus hours so IDK ?
 
#20 ·
Ok don't call me crazy (just yet anyway) but next month I was thinking about flushing my transmission by taking my old pan cut two holes in it, a round hole just big enough for a hose connected to an internal filter neck pushed back in place with the other end of the hose in a new pail of ATF fluid, then the second hole connect a hose going to an empty pail. Then have a buddy start the truck and put the trans into drive and reverse a few times with the E-brake on. Then just watch for the new clean fluid to replace the darker old fluid draining out. This will either work or leave a HUGE mess on my garage floor and scrap my transmission.


Sent from AutoGuide.com App
 
#22 ·
Ok don't call me crazy (just yet anyway) but next month I was thinking about flushing my transmission by taking my old pan cut two holes in it, a round hole just big enough for a hose connected to an internal filter neck pushed back in place with the other end of the hose in a new pail of ATF fluid, then the second hole connect a hose going to an empty pail. Then have a buddy start the truck and put the trans into drive and reverse a few times with the E-brake on. Then just watch for the new clean fluid to replace the darker old fluid draining out. This will either work or leave a HUGE mess on my garage floor and scrap my transmission.
i think you mentioned it before I think it would work?
i think the cooler circuit would still have old fluid in it however you could force it out with air through the remote filter head

Amsoil is like the Mary K of fluids I hate the stupid teir pricing and the flakey dealers if the stuff was on a shelf I might try it but then again probably not
 
#21 · (Edited)
I have gotten more life out of engines and trans that i thought i was going to have to rebuild. Had an engine in a work truck with a lot of lifter noise, was still noisy after start up, then went quiet. I am a dealer because of what the AMSOIL product has done for me.
One of my plow trucks kept over heating trans and leaking at torque convert seal, switched to AMSOIL hasn't happened since, over 4 years.
 
#23 ·
Synthetic or not synthetic ATF

I have blended lubricants for forty years so the best answer I can give you is this. The Ford specification does not require a synthetic fluid to meet the specification. That is why Ford said it is not synthetic. However, many lubricant manufacturers do their best to blend multi-functional lubricants. Lubricants that meet many specifications from many OEM's so a single fluid can work in many varied vehicles and fleets.

So while the Ford spec may not require a synthetic fluid to meet their specification, a GM spec or Volvo, Mercedes, etc. may require parameters met only by synthetic stocks.
So back to your original question. The answer is brand specific. If Castrol or Shell says their fluid is synthetic and meets the Ford LV spec, it is synthetic. If Ford Motorcraft says their fluid is not synthetic, then it is not.

Many companies will "over spec" a product so that it will perform in a wider range of applications and vehicles. I hope this helps.
 
#24 ·
well lets take Valvoline ( synthetic ) for example
they have a Maxlife ATF they say they recommend for use in a Mercon LV or SP application

they also say it has not been approved by Ford nor has it been approved by Mercon

better yet California won't even let them market the Maxlife ATF as an SP recommended fill because the Viscometrics are not the same as OEM Mercon SP

what also bothers me is they have it also recommended for MEcon v
but if you filled a 5r with Mercon V you would be sorry

that being said it is the only fluid i would use if i couldn't get Mercon lv/sp and had to get moving

Suitable for use in:

Allison TES 389*, C
-
4

Audi/VW G
-
055
-
025
-
A2,
G
-
052
-
162
-
A1/A2, G
-
052
-
990
-
A2, G
-
055
-
005
-
A2, G
-
055
-
162
-
A6, G
-
055
-
540
-
A2, G
-
060
-
162
-
A2
,
G
-
052
-
025
-
A2, G
-
052
-
162
-
A1

BMW LT71141, LA2634, M
-
1375.4, ATF 3.0
,
7045E, ETL
8072B

Chrysler Diamond SP
-
III, NAG
-
1, 3403 M115

Ford MERCON
®* (in California use Valvoline
Dex/Merc)

Ford MERCON® V*, FNR5*, XT
-
9
-
AMMF5*,
(in California
use Valvoline MERCON V)

Ford MERCON® SP*

MERCON® LV

GM 9986195

GM DEXRON® II, III and VI

GM Autotrak II

Honda/Acura ATF
-
Z1, DW1 (except in CVTs)

Hyundai SP
-
II, SP
-
III, SP
-
IV, SPH
-
IV,
SP4
-
M,
SP
-
IV
-
RR

JWS 3309

JASO 1A

KIA SP
-
II and SP
-
III Fluids, Red 1

Mazda M
-
V, FZ

Mercedes Benz MB236.1, MB236.6, MB236.7, MB236.9,
MB236.10, MB236.12*, MB 236.14*, MB 236.15*

Mercedes Benz NAG
-
1

MOPAR AS68RC ATF

Miscellaneous OEMs

M1375.4, M1375.6, L12108, LT
71141,
ETL
-
7045E, ETL
-
8072B, 3403 M115, N402, AW
-
1

Mitsubishi Diamond SP
-
II, SP
-
III, ATF
-
J3, Dia Queen ATF
-
PA

Nissan Matic
-
D, Matic
-
J, Matic
-
K, Matic
-
S, Matic W

Saab 93 165 147

Subaru ATF

Subaru ATF
-
HP

Toyota / Lexus Type T, T
-
III and T
-
IV

Toyota WS

Vol
vo 1161521, 1161540, STD 1273.41, 97340

VW TL52162, LT71141

ZF TE
-
ML
-
14B, 16L, 17C
*Please note that legislation in California prohibits Valvoline from recommending MaxLife™ ATF in certain applications where
the
viscometrics of MaxLife™ ATF do not match those of the official OEM specification. Valvoline therefore does not recommend th
e
use of MaxLife™ ATF in these applications in California.
 
#25 ·
California won't even let them market the Maxlife ATF as an SP recommended fill because the Viscometrics are not the same as OEM Mercon SP
what also bothers me.....
You know what bothers me? California. Can we just extend the wall around them too?:banghead:

I feel better now....
 
#27 ·
I would be willing to help Commiefornia put the paperwork in place for their secession.
And Id' be the first one to sign up.

Buh Bye Cali!

Interesting Info in this thread for sure. My trans is due pretty soon for a flush and I'm thinking about doing Amsoil this time. Same for the front and rear axles....
I shall report for duty when I do it....
 
#29 ·
Interesting Info in this thread for sure. My trans is due pretty soon for a flush and I'm thinking about doing Amsoil this time. Same for the front and rear axles....
I shall report for duty when I do it....
When I owned the 6.0 I only used Amsoil Signature Series Multi-Vehicle Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid in her. And frankly, I loved it. I changed the trans oil (dump, new filters and refill not a hot flush) about every 15k miles due to heavy hauling. Tranny always shifted very nicely. Pricey? YES! But good stuff.
 
#36 ·
sorry i can go on from time to time :D
 
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#38 ·
yea yea and on ad infinitum
 
#39 ·
Non possum ultra loqueris fixum in sempiternum!
 
#40 ·
Ego tristique ac libero sint inter eos

as nothing survives the google translator i will say simply

chief among the things I am passionate about is freedom
 
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#42 ·
i think amsoil is good stuff i just cant bring myself to pay 300% more for something that might be 25% better.
i would rather change fluids more often
plus that gives me a better view of what is happening with my trucks anyway :nod:

if i had WAY more cashon hand i woudl consider it for sure and i know i could sign up as a dealer and it would only be 50 to 75% more but...
i think something about the amway business model bugs me :dunno:
 
#45 ·
I'm sure our "place on the planet" has something to do with it but my OTD price is $9.40 per qt of Amsoil Signature Series Fuel-Efficient Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid (when purchased in 2 1/2 gal kit ) if I pick it up. Motorcraft Mercon LV is $7.49 at the Advance Stoo. Strange as it may be, that's 25% more for the Amsoil. I take that any day and twice on Sunday.

Just sayin,
k
 
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