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Is there too much ELC Hype?

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8K views 48 replies 22 participants last post by  2 stroker 
#1 ·
As I read through the various forums and posts, it almost seems that half of the posts now are regarding coolant, flushing and ELC. Now I'll admit I have my fair share of oil cooler posting :) but I have to wonder, is ELC actually preventing issues? I am starting to see oil cooler postings where the owner had switched to ELC already, and to be fair they may have already had a clogged cooler, but the question still stands, how is ELC doing, has it prevented oil cooler issues (EGR cooler issues) and just as importantly has it actually improved your ECT / EOT delta's?

For the record, I finally switched to Zerex ELC over the weekend and glad I did.
 
#2 ·
IMO, its a waste of time and money. I'll just keep my Ford gold coolant on a 50k replacement interval :nod:
 
#5 ·
How is ELC doing, has it prevented oil cooler issues (EGR cooler issues) and just as importantly has it actually improved your ECT / EOT delta's?

For the record, I finally switched to Zerex ELC over the weekend and glad I did.
When the truck is going down the road no load delta is with in 5* but when towing when the motor is working hard it is easy to hit 15* or more temp spread. I do feel the coolant I have in will last longer than the gold under towing conditions.
 
#6 ·
As I read through the various forums and posts, it almost seems that half of the posts now are regarding coolant, flushing and ELC. Now I'll admit I have my fair share of oil cooler posting :) but I have to wonder, is ELC actually preventing issues? I am starting to see oil cooler postings where the owner had switched to ELC already, and to be fair they may have already had a clogged cooler, but the question still stands, how is ELC doing, has it prevented oil cooler issues (EGR cooler issues) and just as importantly has it actually improved your ECT / EOT delta's?

For the record, I finally switched to Zerex ELC over the weekend and glad I did.
Hi Karl,
You are an oil cooler post wh0re! :D I'm very glad to have you and your experiences being shared here. I'm quite curious about your last statement since it seems to suggest that there was a reason you are glad you made the change.

I can't speak directly to the topic at hand since I'm running the BPD setup, but I am still running the GOLD coolant despite having purchased my Zerex ELC about a year or so ago (I'm guessing). I have datalogged considerably both before and after the BPD setup, but I'm guessing that the results would be quite different than folks running the stock oil cooler setup. For now, I'll try to be content to sit in the back and observe. :D As always, if I start to get out of hand, just smack me around a bit and I'll go back to my corner. :hehe:
 
#7 ·
My last statement was simply to show my camaraderie with those who have made the switch. I have been reading posts where ELC is being hailed as the 6.0 fix-all by actually reversing the effects of G-05 and silicate coating. Not sure how much of that I believe (if any at all) but I am interested in seeing if there is a reduction in oil cooler failures, overheating or other cooling system mis-haps.
 
#9 ·
My last statement was simply to show my camaraderie with those who have made the switch. I have been reading posts where ELC is being hailed as the 6.0 fix-all by actually reversing the effects of G-05 and silicate coating. Not sure how much of that I believe (if any at all) but I am interested in seeing if there is a reduction in oil cooler failures, overheating or other cooling system mis-haps.

I have been posting that it won't fix a bad oil cooler and if you're not sure what you're dealing with to replace it. I feel better know that I have ELC in the cooling system even though I deleted the egr and run a BPD oil cooler.
 
#41 ·
that says a lot right there changing it every 35k. elc is good for 300k getting rid of that gold stuff would be more cost effective in ur case
 
#10 ·
Those who are saying they will stick with a mileage whether using Premium Gold OR an EC-1 rated ELC are BOTH missing the critical components present in any fluid duty cycle namely contamination threshold or neutralization capacity.

For engine oil this is easy. Consider contamination threshold: 20 micron filtration (stock filter) is not as good as 2 micron filtration (oil bypass filtration) but this is not the complete story as eventually the filter fills up with contaminants; it is obstructed. Now consider neutralization capacity: TBN above 1.0 means there is sufficient additive to prevent acid induced corrosion but there is also shear resistance (neutralizing friction over a period of time...perhaps neutralization is not the most accurate way to describe this but shear stability is a measure of the engine oil to provide consistent lubrication over a period of time during conditions that cause a chemical breakdown...sort of like acid/base neutralization - sort of). In any case, with used oil analysis (UOA) there is no doubt that when wear metal concentration rises it is an indication of the oil being less effective. When UOA shows falling TBN it indicates the oil has less capacity to prevent corrosion. When UOA shows viscosity reduction it indicates less protection to moving parts at operational temperature. There is an accepted duty cycle for engine oil, recommended by the manufacturer, of 5k to 7.5k miles BUT with UOA you may have to make adjustments lower (some may go higher although I haven't seen many oils that can handle the shear induced by the 6.0L for longer than 7.5k-miles, TBN and contaminants are no problem for most especially those with bypass filtration).

The same considerations ought to be applied to coolant whether Premium Gold or EC-1 rated ELCs (of which there are many). Premium Gold (which is technically an ELC and causes quite a few folks some confusion) begins with VERY LOW nitrite level...forget about silicates for a moment although those silicates should not be ignored...nitrites are a corrosion inhibitor. Corrosion induced by cavitation, AKA erosion corrosion, will literally eat an engine bit by bit all with microscopic bubbles. Corrosion in large part is a result of oxidation. See this link:
Water Purification Handbook Chapter 24 Corrosion Control-Cooling Systems
Water has an oxidation state of one. Nitrites have an oxidation state of two. As I mentioned, Premium Gold starts with low nitrite concentration (I think 800ppm) yet the minimum threshold in industry is 800ppm! Nitrites are depleted rapidly through chemical reaction. See here:
Learning Coolant Fundamentals
In an EC-1 rated ELC, carboxylates are introduced to provide cavitation protection extending the life of nitrites. Carboxylates have an oxidation state of three. Additionally, carboxylates add corrosion inhibitors for steel while nitrites only inhibit corrosion in iron. Most EC-1 ELCs also start with a nitrite level well above 800ppm.

The bottom line is that without periodic testing and analysis - an interval based on mileage is problematic and any desirable attributes such as corrosion protection or contamination avoidance is absent potentially and a false sense of security provided. That is the fundamental flaw of "fill-and-forget" in practice.

For what it's worth...the need for the discussion is still relevant from my perspective.

Jonathan
 
#11 ·
Which coolant are you running, Jonathan?
 
#12 ·
Im going to run whatever Jonathan runs cause he sounds smart. :hehe:
 
#13 ·
With what ELC has done to my truck since I switched. I will stick with the ELC.
My degas tank was coverd with deposits like every other 6.0L I put my finger in, now its been clear for the past 12K miles. This is the check I do to all my friends and show them the S..t that is collecting everywhere in their truck.
It includes the rad. heater core, hoses, coolers. Thats the stuff that Gold C..p is good to produce, but never again in my truck.
Before I could not see the water level in the degas tank, and the coolant was very clean, it does nothing to clean it's just good to deposit it's s..t all over the cooling system.
 
#15 ·
I did it because red is my favorite color. My ELC reminds me of cherry cool-aid. Lol. So gold coolant came out when I did studs (around 32k I think). Gold coolant went back in. I did my flush with ELC about 15k later. The gold coolant with 15k was about brown when it came out. Since the flushes and ELC everything has been cleaned. Even the degas bottle is clear! It was poop brown before.

Had a 0-6* deleta oil/coolant before switching. Have a 0-6* delta with ELC. 5-9* difference with temps in the 80s and towing about 7500 lbs. ELC didnt change my temps at all!

Its not that much more expensive than other coolant. I spend more on lunch every few days than I did on ELC.

Why not switch!
 
#16 ·
Also, I have a few gallons of ELC left. I might switch my Fairlane over when I fill it! :)
 
#17 ·
Shawn,
I'm running GOLD - just not Premium Gold...it's one of Shell's new coolants, Rotella Ultra ELC. It is a molybdate infused coolant (molybdate has an oxidation state of six) and it is nitrite free. Molybdate is actually an acceptable alternative for nitrite - it was used in the same manner that carboxylates are used in the traditional EC-1 rated coolants (and to be clear, Rotella Ultra ELC is EC-1 rated). I still endorse twice annual checks at a minimum as well as analysis of coolant (yes) through a laboratory.

Just don't drink the Kool-Aid! (Perhaps I did though)

Jonathan
 
#19 ·
Thank you, sir. I always read your posts with interest since your points are always succinct and relevant, although I'm not quite sure what you wrote above. :D While I don't understand the chemical components, I can easily follow what you are saying. :thumb: BTW, I'm planning to make the switch to my Zerex ELC as well, just haven't had the spark of motivation to push me over the top to do it.
 
#20 ·
The rotella ELC is the same coolant the VT365 motor is spec' to run (sister motor to 6 leaker). Now rotella also carrys an ULTRA ELC, this has OAT in it.

Just an FYI, so when you go to the international dealership be sure to get the Rotella ELC and not the Rotella ULTRA ELC. If I am not mistaken, I think both are EC-1 rated, someone correct me.
 
#21 ·
Just an FYI, so when you go to the international dealership be sure to get the Rotella ELC and not the Rotella ULTRA ELC. If I am not mistaken, I think both are EC-1 rated, someone correct me.
Why is that?
 
#22 ·
#23 ·
Yea Shell ELC is in a black bottle, the 50/50 Shell ELC is white and the Shell UELC is in a black bottle with gold letters.

You will see when they are on the shelf! BTW, they will be pusing the Ultra.
 
#28 ·
That's the ticket! It is a maintenance item just like engine oil, transmission fluid, filters, etc. Coolant just has (should have) a very long exchange interval...not a very long "ignore" interval. Every year in most places it will get HOT and it will get COLD. Prior to the extremes of these two periods it is very prudent to assess the capacity of the coolant.

By the way, most EC-1 rated coolants (those with carboxylates)...they use Organic Acid Technology (OAT) too. Even Zerex G-05 (Premium Gold) is a Hybrid Organic Acid Technology based coolant. That's why I say beware the Kool-Aid...folks get scared by the name DEXCOOL - "It's an OAT! Stay away!" Test strips are inexpensive and easy to read. You may check chemical balance and concentration on your own or pull a sample and mail it off for analysis...the history you build with the coolant of your choice provides insight to the continued reliable operation of your truck. Premium Gold will require nitrite supplementation AT FILL and perhaps a recharge will be necessary as well. Most EC-1 coolants don't require a supplement charge at fill and the recharge - if that is opted - comes at a longer interval because of the alternative chemicals (neutralized organic acids for corrosion inhibition) used.

Don't fill-and-forget! That is neglect.

Jonathan
 
#29 ·
Jonathan, do you have a company who you have used to test coolant? I'm sure that there are several, just knowing who to use is always a question.
 
#30 ·
That's what I am running right now, the Zerex G-05. I wasn't aware that it was chemically any different from the Ford gold coolant. It's what we put in it when I changed to the BulletProof oil and EGR coolers.
 
#33 ·
Maybe, hopefully we'll start to see the impact of ELC for our trucks. Shawn since you were willing to help push my truck off a cliff, I'm willing to help change coolant.
 
#39 ·
Now I just need to get you a plane ticket! :D
 
#34 ·
Im gonna make the switch one of these weekends
 
#35 ·
All three of the by-mail laboratories I have used for oil analysis also provide coolant analysis:
http://www.blackston-labs.com
Oil Analyzers, Inc. - Oil Analysis, Oil Testing Services
Predictive Maintenance Services, Inc.
Depending on where you are located, I suspect a truck service center may also provide while-you-wait analysis.

The Predictive Services lab is the least expensive but you pay up-front. Blackstone gives you free sample kits so you always have a ready supply independent of cash flow. Oil Analyzers is part of AMSOIL and many folks have AMSOIL accounts so you may have access to a discount.

Let me say that I have had HUGE success from all three - they are great organizations with great people working for them. You will have a personal involvement. The information you provide along with the samples is absolutely used to generate an accurate subjective assessment along with the objective data from the chemical analysis performed.

The worst thing that may be done in regards to coolant is ignoring its condition. The newer ELCs are more forgiving because they have improved characteristics. Silicates were used because it was an easy chemical reaction to induce and maintain but they have a negative effect on water pumps...and a short life "NEW IN TWO!" Low silicate coolants HOATs used benzoate to "extend" the life of the silicates in the same way no-silicate OATs use carboxylates to "extend" the life of nitrites. There were nitrites involved in silicate based coolants too to be clear but the limiting factor was silicate drop out not nitrite depletion as with low-silicate coolant. If you wait too long with low-silicate coolant you'll get the same drop out though - along with nitrite depletion.

Coolants are complex fluids! Beer is more fun though. Drink beer not Kool-Aid!

Jonathan
 
#36 ·
All three of the by-mail laboratories I have used for oil analysis also provide coolant analysis:
http://www.blackston-labs.com
Oil Analyzers, Inc. - Oil Analysis, Oil Testing Services
Predictive Maintenance Services, Inc.
Depending on where you are located, I suspect a truck service center may also provide while-you-wait analysis.

The Predictive Services lab is the least expensive but you pay up-front. Blackstone gives you free sample kits so you always have a ready supply independent of cash flow. Oil Analyzers is part of AMSOIL and many folks have AMSOIL accounts so you may have access to a discount.

Let me say that I have had HUGE success from all three - they are great organizations with great people working for them. You will have a personal involvement. The information you provide along with the samples is absolutely used to generate an accurate subjective assessment along with the objective data from the chemical analysis performed.

The worst thing that may be done in regards to coolant is ignoring its condition. The newer ELCs are more forgiving because they have improved characteristics. Silicates were used because it was an easy chemical reaction to induce and maintain but they have a negative effect on water pumps...and a short life "NEW IN TWO!" Low silicate coolants HOATs used benzoate to "extend" the life of the silicates in the same way no-silicate OATs use carboxylates to "extend" the life of nitrites. There were nitrites involved in silicate based coolants too to be clear but the limiting factor was silicate drop out not nitrite depletion as with low-silicate coolant. If you wait too long with low-silicate coolant you'll get the same drop out though - along with nitrite depletion.

Coolants are complex fluids! Beer is more fun though. Drink beer not Kool-Aid!

Jonathan
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." Benjamin Franklin

"Liver disease is proof that God doesn't want us to be that happy." Me :hehe:
 
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