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Fix your old 6.0 or go for new?

9K views 40 replies 19 participants last post by  john galt 
#1 ·
Hello all, I am at a crossroads with my 6.0. I have an 03 mostly stock truck w ~145k miles. It is garage kept and in good shape. No immediate problems. I monitor temps and I am seeing 15-18 deltas at times and I think I may need to make changes soon. I could do an oil cooler and egr swap (for bullet proof EGR) myself and possibly buy myself many more miles. My question is about the head studs. Since these are probably out of my skill set I would have to pay someone else for this work and if the cab is coming off maybe let them do all the work. If I go crazy with all the mods and upgrades the cost could get very high (as in >10k as I understand). I am talking about reworked heads, bpd cooler, bpd egr and all the other related seals, upgrades and tweeks. $10k sounds okay if it may extend the trucks life 10 or more years and a couple 100ks more miles. In reality, I don’t drive a lot of miles and don’t pull heavy loads on a regular basis. Getting the return on this investment seems daunting. Do I need head studs? If I haven’t had an issue with stock truck in 145k will I have issues soon? I have read heads often go as a result of the plugged oil cooler and then failed EGR. If I resolve the first two issues (egr cooler and oil cooler) might it stand to reason the stock head bolts would be fine? It seems odd that you would remove sealed heads to reseal them. (I understand preventative maintenance and I see valid reasons for everyone that removes stock bolts to go w ARP studs.) SO my options seem to be do nothing and see how long my stock truck runs, with this approach I am on edge wondering when something might fail. Second option is to proactively update what I can do myself, such as water pump, oil cooler, egr cooler, hpop stc upgrade, and related seals. Second option might by a lot of miles and several more years. Third option is to let an approved BPD installer do the work and have the most confidence in longevity of my truck along with the most $$$ laid down. Once you go down the road to invest a commitment is made and if an unrelated failure occurs like a transmission, AC or other pricey repair it seems you would be stuck to pay for that as well. Ultimatly tipping the scale of what you thought was worthwhile as opposed to more money than its worth. I figure my truck may be worth on KBB values around 10K as is and if I invest that much more in repairs suddenly I have 20k tied up in a truck that is 14years old. This is a pretty long winded post to point out a few things. I like my existing truck and its paid for, a new truck and the payment on 70k- NO THANKS. After this decision is made it is compounded by the fact I have an excursion in same boat, nice stock, garage kept vehicle w 150k. So whatever my decision is x2. Let me know your thoughts. I know a ton of experience is available on this forum and I would like to hear your thoughts. One more thing, I have read, studied and learned so much about my 6.0 I feel somewhat comfortable knowing how it behaves. I believe the knowledge here and the solutions to the 6.0 weaknesses are well understood and available at this stage, if I migrated to a different platform the learning process would start all over.
 
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#2 ·
Sounds like you're in the same boat I was in with my 04. My deltas were creeping up and I was trying to figure out which option to choose. Ultimately went with a new OEM oil cooler and BPD EGR cooler. That was 90,000 miles and 6 years ago so I'm happy I went the way I did. Still running on original head gaskets and bolts. Had to replace the FICM power supply but other than that, nothing major.
 
#3 · (Edited)
Good advice here!

OP - Your 03 has a reliable EGR cooler (as does the EARLY 04 engines). IMO, no need to upgrade.

While the original (early model year) HPOPs have documented reliability issues, I wouldn't replace it until you had problems. Also, you do not have the STC fitting. The HPO lines and oil rails on the 03 are pretty reliable.

The water pump upgrade (which requires a new front cover and radiator hose) is a good one, but only you know if you need one (monitor temps).

If you don't need to be tuned, I would wait on the head studs - JMHO.

Lastly, the transmissions are pretty reliable, as is the A/C compressor.

Keep the maintenance up! Make sure you are flushing and replacing the fluids and filters as required. This includes transmission fluids and filters (30k mile flushes or drain/fill maintenance, along w/ external filter replacement). Make sure you have a robust coolant or are doing flush and refills on the Ford Gold every 45k miles.
 
#4 ·
If the body and transmission is in good to fair condition fix what you have.

Look - sounds like your not in need of more power, so don't chip it. To get a reliable 6.0 you don't need to do the bullet proof remote oil cooler, just get the updated oil cooler from ford, delete the EGR and run a quality EC-1 rated coolant with filtration (although filtration has seemed to not really be needed). YOu could have a shop do all this for under 1k and do it yourself for half of that.

Continue to monitor and drive it like you normally would. If the head gaskets blow (which if you do everything above they should be fine) then deal with it then. The price has really come down on a head stud job for these trucks because most shops dont even pull the cab anymore, they either do them in the truck or some shops now even yank the engine out and do it that way, saves on labor and then they can do the rear main and bed plate oil seals for you.

Either way you look at it, a new rig to replace yours is 50-60k. A used one with less miles than yours is going to still in the 30s to 40s, unless you go with dice game and buy a used 6.4.

So spend 1k now or drop 50-60k, what makes more sense?
 
#5 ·
I got my '04 with 85k on it. It's got 181k on it now and I plan on putting at least another 100k on it before I'm done with it. Mine's stock, no performance mods, with the exception of the KC Stage 1.5 turbo and tuning. TTY bolts and all. I have put a BPD EGR cooler and coolant filter on it and most recently an MBRP y-pipe and test pipe, but for the most part, it's just a stock truck.

If you like the truck and can see yourself driving it for another 100k, I don't really see your dilema? With your deltas, it's probably a good time to consider an oil cooler replacement, but you could try some good old backflushing of the cooler and maybe buy some more time. There's also the option of the BPD remote OEM oil cooler setup. With it you can pre-filter the coolant to avoid future clogging and it's pretty simple to backflush or even change out if you need to down the road. With the discount code, it's only $800-900 more than just a standard cooler replacement. Since yours is an '03, you may be looking at a new HPOP down the road too. Some last over 200k, some don't. With all of that said, maintain what you have and fix what's needed when it's needed and you should be fine. A truck fund, with any diesel, not just 6.0's, is always a good idea. For that matter, with any vehicle. Stuff breaks on everything, even new ones. :twocents:
 
#6 ·
Let's say you do the BPD oil cooler relocation and maybe a couple of other upgrades to get yours where you want it. You'll have, what, $3500 invested worst case? That's maybe a down payment on a newer one, or about 6 months of payments. For a truck that's only driven 10K miles per year and not worked very hard, fixing yours is a no-brainer in my opinion.
 
#7 ·
Couple of additional things. To ensure your injector health and longevity, install a fuel pressure sensor and gauge. Keep the pressure above 50 psig. If it ever drops, troubleshoot it quickly! Remember OEM fuel filters.

If you do decide to go w/ head studs, find a VERY trustworthy machine shop. If they do their job right, then you are in business. If they don't (and some don't), then you have opened a can of worms!
 
#8 ·
My 06 had 180,000. I am doing some work on it for another 11 year/180,000 miles of use. All the new stuff is way too complicated to work on and requires carry a jug of cow piss around. No thanks to the 08 and later stuff.
 
#9 ·
Sometimes, when folks pose this same question, it's clear that they are either tired of their truck or are craving new doodads - Microsoft Sync or cup holder lighting or (egasp) they want it to be quieter. You seem fine with your 6.0. To me, that's the main thing.

All of the good points have been made. I drive a basically stock truck other than an oil cooler relocation. Untuned, it'll prolly run forever. I'm completely fine with that.

If you are too, attend to the cooler and other basic top-end rehab items and drive on. It'll be the fastest $30k-$40k that you ever made.
 
#11 ·
Sometimes, when folks pose this same question, it's clear that they are either tired of their truck or are craving new doodads - Microsoft Sync or cup holder lighting or (egasp) they want it to be quieter. You seem fine with your 6.0. To me, that's the main thing.
Hey! I love my cup holder lighting!!!! I change the colors to blue to keep the cold drinks cold and red to keep the hot drinks hot. Yeah....that's what I do! :wink:
 
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#10 ·
Usually when I replace the oil cooler, I like to remove the hpop while I'm in there. This way you can blow the oil reservoir and feed port clean. Place a rag over the hpop supply inlet on the block, and use your blow nozzle to blow out the feed in the reservoir. Spray a little brake clean in the reservoir and at the feed port. Blow it all out clean and dry, keeping the rag over the hpop supply. This will insure that the reservoir is clean and free of lint and that the supply port is free of debris which can cause premature pump failure.
Remember to pick up the hpop cover gasket and hpop o ring kit. New seals, a clean reservoir/supply and updated screen. aside from proper maintenance, you've done what you can to prolong the life of the pump.

I'm still waiting for a 6.7 to roll in on the hook out of warranty with a seized motor that I can make an offer on.
If that day ever comes, I'll definitely miss the sound of my stock exhaust 6.0 when I get on it. That is the sound of a great machine
 
#14 ·
I think I'll install a toilet in the bed of mine.....
 
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#17 ·
Honestly, I agree with the concensus, I'd keep what you've got. The reality facing you is, most likely your next issue will be the need to change your injectors. I heard of trucks pulling well over 250k on their original injectors. If and when that takes place, I'd go ahead and rebuild your turbo then, it's not all that much. I love mine and I'd keep what you've got.

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#18 ·
Thanks everyone, sounds like good advice. I will continue to monitor. I did drive on the car lot over the weekend and looking at new trucks really made me feel better about mine and possibly investing in some preventative. Holly cow, $$$ the new trucks look cool but for a house payment they seem to come up short. I just picked up fuel pressure test set up. I will be trying that our soon. Also time for the coolant in both my trucks so I have a weekend project.
 
#19 ·
Consider picking up the blue spring upgrade (increases stock fuel pressure from 45psi to 60psi), if you haven't already. It's like $20 and will save your rear cylinders in the long run, Def worth it. Also, make sure to deep flush your coolant system (you can use a hose, but you need distilled water for the last three fill and empties, just to be safe). Make sure that you drive your truck around to get to operating temp, this way you open your heater core. There are some good videos on this, I believe by Diesel Ron, even.

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#20 ·
There is a comprehensive Flushing procedure and I do believe it is posted as a sticky.
If you cannot find it just PM me your email, I'll send it to you.
 
#22 ·
I'm currently running a coolant filter and oil bypass kit from Sinister, and I've been very pleased.

Plus, Rotella T6 5w40 and a Mishimoto radiator, I've been very pleased. I'm looking at moving to the 5w30 by Amsoil (just not sure yet), it's supposed to help mpg. I've also flashed my FICM with the ATLAS tune and it's been wonderful. Let me know if anyone needs that contacts info.

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#23 ·
Just checked my fuel pressure. It is running ~58 and drops to ~50 at WOT. That is stock, (havn't done the blue spring upgrade yet) I wanted to get a reading before making changes. In my case it seems like I am fine for now. I will continue to check this. I got a kit from ebay w fuel filter cap, hose, gauge and schrader valve that makes the test easy. Thanks for the advice. Lets hope she runs for a long time.
 
#24 ·
I bought my truck while looking in the $25k price range. I don't need a diesel or a 3/4 ton truck (or really a truck at all), so I would've been close to being able to buy a 2017 F-150. The reason I decided to go with the older truck is because they are cheaper to fix, and problems are already known so there are already solutions out there.

I right now would be willing to say that I would rather fix my 6.0 than buy something new / different. The way I look at it is I might have to spend $10k to put a new engine in the truck, but that'll still be cheaper than buying a new truck. What I spent on the truck when I bought it is dust in the wind. Will I get the $10k out of the engine? Would I get $30k of use of a new truck ($70,930 for a 2017 with the same options, nothing more than my truck has currently)? To me I think I would get $10k of use out of the engine + fixing what ever else brakes, but I doubt I'll ever get $71k of use out of any truck.
 
#25 ·
I was in the same boat, my decision was to go whole hog and fix up the older one. Paid 5K for my 2003 king ranch, up to about 16K in repairs with it back in the shop for head issues. Still only down 22-23K. Looked at a 11 king ranch 100K miles with the 6.2 gas, $34K. Nice truck but I can put an engine, transmission, seat cover, die job, and just get to that number, but with a mechanically nearly new truck. So what the heck, its only money, they say it grows on trees.

Good luck.
 
#26 ·
I just pulled my 05 6.0 with 327K mi, Original head gaskets finally went all stock except for the Tune I put on it, the cylinder walls are in almost factory specs, I proly could have gotten away with head gaskets only but with 327K I didn't want to chance it. those of you with a little over 100K miles shouldn't worry unless you are getting overheat problems.
 
#27 ·
Been where you are... As with anything, you have to commit for return on investment. If you like your ride, "bulletproofing" is 4 grand.
There is one thing you have not considered though. I have looked for about 18 months now, firmly believing in the quote "once you make a decision, the universe conspires to make it happen" .
I drove a RAM, 17, 4x4, Cummins, nicely equipped, truck month sale was 48,200.
I drove a GMC, 17, 4x4, Duramax, nicely equipped, 72,000.
I drove a 16, Ford SD, Screw, Powerstroke, 4x4, XLT, just off the rental rounds on Enterprise car sales lot. 24,000 miles, 806 hours total on engine, including idle time. All records, maintained, not a mark on it. 38,499. Guess what I did?
Liked my old bulletproofed truck, love the new '16 even more.
Do not overlook current model used.. I found several where folks got in over there head and traded, getting hit with the depreciation. There is another 16 near me, 13,000 miles, 44,000.
 
#28 ·
... you have to commit for return on investment. ...
In general, vehicles are not an investment. In most cases, they are one step above burning money in a hibachi.

Maybe not show trucks, but definitely the DDs.
 
#29 ·
I haven't masde it past page one and with my internet acting up I thought i would chimein anyways...

IF you CAN fix a 6.0...
ALWAY fix the 6.0 :nod:
it can be a great 500k platform for MUCH less than a newer dpf ladden diesel and made at least as dependable if nt more so with just basic maintenance and some fixes for known problems.
as was stated the early 04 and 03 have a superior egr cooler to the "improved" one :doh:
a good serious flush
a coolant filter to catch anything the flush missed
elc coolant
oil cooler relocation os bpd your choice either way your life will be easier down the road
terminator or adrenaline hpop a serious cleaning and boom
you own an amazing truck
 
#30 ·
I guess it's partly my age but the "sticker shock" of a new truck like my '05 cuts me like a razor! If you're 30 yrs old, maybe $75K for a truck is not a big deal. It's all about perspective.

Some things from my perspective:
Materials for my new house in 1989 were half of what a new truck costs now.
In my town, house's can be had for not much more than the cost of a new truck. (Fixer uppers of fix and flips)
It hasn't been that long ago that you could by a nice Class 8 truck for that kind of money.
You can get a mortgage on a pretty nice home here with a payment close to what a truck payment is if you finance most of the purchase price of the truck.

k
 
#31 ·
I think you are absolutely right. The new generation of kids is oblivious to what things costs. They are oblivious to minimum wages too ($15/hr ? yeah right)

My first house cost me $72,000. It's not too hard to go on a dealership lot and find that some, if not most, trucks and cars too cost way more than that. We have a dealer here that's selling a Dodge Hellcat for $92,000. Crazy. There's no way in hell I'd pay that for a car. Not unless I was Bill Gates. And certainly not for a Dodge....:hehe:
 
#32 ·
I'll bet every generation goes thru this. When my dad was the same age I am now, he paid $4300 for a brand new truck! I'm sure if he was still alive he'd have thought I was crazy when I paid $37k for mine in 2004. In 20 years when my daughter pays $125k for a new self driving Prius I'll probably have a stroke and that'll be the end of all my woes!
 
#34 ·
the 125K price wouldn't bother me so much AS IT IS a Pussyius!

:haha: :hehe: :hehe:
 
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#33 · (Edited)
For those that mention the 03 EGR being "better", does this mean I don't need to worry about changing it? It is indeed the round type. I was thinking about getting the BPD for peace of mind. BPD water pump is on the same list, nothing leaking or failing right now but figured I might change it for long term peace of mind.
I have been running a bypass coolant filter for a while, (I think I did the first flush around 100k) I installed it soon after the flush. I also changed my "lifetime" oil in the front and rear axles. Not sure what lifetime means but my truck was ~10 years old at the time and the cost of oil (even expensive gear oil) was money well spent IMO. For all those mentioning age and previous trucks, my first truck was a 1988 7.3, bought it used with ~75k miles. I put ~200k more on her and invested a couple grand in parts during that time, it was a beautiful thing.
 
#35 ·
For those that mention the 03 EGR being "better", does this mean I don't need to worry about changing it? It is indeed the round type. I was thinking about getting the BFD for peace of mind. BFD water pump is on the same list, nothing leaking or failing right now but figured I might change it for long term peace of mind.
I have been running a bypass coolant filter for a while, (I think I did the first flush around 100k) I installed it soon after the flush. I also changed my "lifetime" oil in the front and rear axles. Not sure what lifetime means but my truck was ~10 years old at the time and the cost of oil (even expensive gear oil) was money well spent IMO. For all those mentioning age and previous trucks, my first truck was a 1988 7.3, bought it used with ~75k miles. I put ~200k more on her and invested a couple grand in parts during that time, it was a beautiful thing.
The key to the EGR cooler is keeping the oil cooler unrestricted. If the oil cooler clogs, little or no coolant makes it to the EGR cooler so it gets hot and cracks. The round one has a lower failure rate than the square one so you could leave it in and feel fairly confident about it. FWIW, I replaced my round one when I did my oil cooler but I'm a worry wart and that's a curse I just have to live with. My delta was about 18 degrees so I figured the EGR cooler may have been subjected to higher than normal temps already and I didn't want to chance it.

And the company that makes the upgraded EGR coolers is BPD, BulletProof Diesel. BFD stands for something else entirely!
 
#38 ·
also of note
my understanding is
the egr cooler super heats the coolant which causes the silicates inthe g05 to drop out.
this causes them to collect in the oil cooler building up and clogging the cooler raising temps in both oil and coolant which cases the egr cooler to flash heat the coolant even more the end result of this vicious circle is the egr cooler ruptures flowing coolant into the cylinders raising cylinder presure and stretching the tty bolts and or warping the heads causing headgasket failure.
the cycle becgins with the egr cooler though which is why the 6.0 is used in europe without an egr cooler and runs trouble free for 300k before they are mandated to be replaced with a new engine

i do not know of anyone who has had their early style egr clog and rupture but i did put a Bullet Proof Diesel egr on mine anyways as i am in commiefornia and want to be as legal as possible and i had yet to smog the beast
I also had my favorite tune written to turn off the egr flow. a delete would likely be better and I will probably eventually weld up my original cooler and use it as a delete until i have to smog then put the bulletproof one back in.

mitch did a great write up on this years ago that helped me when i started my build. here is a link
http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/6-...s-consider-about-owning-6-0l.html#post2147484
 
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