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Avoiding newbie mistakes on a 6.0L

7K views 34 replies 12 participants last post by  ps365 
#1 ·
Hoping you all can keep me from doing something dumb on a new-to-me 6.0L. I'm reading like mad trying to come up the learning curve. In the meantime, wanted to try to avoid expensive beginner mistake(s).

Truck is an '07 E-350 with 115k miles. Wasn't used much in the last few years. Shop maintained by the previous owner and seems to have got proper maintenance. I'm hesitant to drive it much until I better understand what problems it might have or has and need attention.

Engine:

Oil is very light in color, not thick and black like what I'm used to seeing in an old cummins and detroit. Don't know if that's a good sign, wouldn't seem to be bad. Is this normal or just a sign it was recently changed?

Read the codes -- they appear to have been cleared just before I bought it based on miles logged since last clear. CEL is not currently on, though showing a P0299 for turbo underboost and P0402 for EGR. The seller said the shop found a few codes including P0299 but they decided to sell instead of fix, so that wasn't a surprise and was factored into a lower price.

Trans:

It's got the 5 speed torqueshift tranny. Oil is clear; looks and smells ok. It has the factory tow package with external filter and cooler. Fittings where transmission cooler lines go into lower radiator tank are both weeping a small amount of coolant. Leaving a small amount of dried white residue on tank around and below them.

Next...

Once I get filters and fluids changed, are the two codes something to be immediately concerned with? Would driving it a few hundred miles do anything to help? I suspect there could be other codes ready to show up. 1000 miles?

Once I get a better scan tool / software (today or tomorrow) I'll check the ECT/EOT differential for dreaded oil cooler issues. Also dieseltechron's youtube on turbo refresh said to check VGT % if the scanner supports it. Hopefully it does though I'm not sure it changes anything, it still needs some attention.

Otherwise working my way through the FAQs and new owner checklists.

If you have any comments/thoughts/concerns, any input is much appreciated.

Thanks!
 
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#4 ·
Since its been pretty inactive for a while and you have a code for underboost I would recommend cleaning the turbo. Same with the egr valve
 
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#5 ·
I spent some time getting Torque pro running on a tablet.

Attaching a photo of the real-time display: 60 mph, 2000-2500 rpms (overdrive off) after 4-5 miles.

Oil and coolant temp were no more than 8* F apart. That's OK, correct? Or still a worry?

Over the course of a 20 +/- miles test drive, VGT duty cycle varied. It didn't seem stuck at 15% or 85%, though did seem to hesitate at one extreme or the other before returning back to mid range. I didn't quite see the pattern to it. Had good power at WOT. The P0299 code is still pending (no change).

No change to the EGR code, it's still set. It's actually P0404 (not P0402 as I posted earlier). I'm going to clean it or install a new one.

Anything else that jumps out from these numbers? Any others to check for initial analysis?

Thanks again to all for the eyes & ears. Much appreciated!
 

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#6 ·
I'm watching this thread. I would like to see what does the trick.
 
#8 ·
Your deltas for EOT and ect are good. Vgt is supposed to vary and it's not an actual reading. It's a commanded reading meaning that's what the PCM is telling it to do. Same with IPR duty cycle. I would still clean it really well along the egr valve
 
#9 ·
Picked up a case of Delo ELC today at the distributor. :shots:

Current plan is:
1. Coolant flush & replace. Don't have filter figured out yet. Looking at IPR or Mishimoto. Would be a lot easier if it was a truck.
2. Transmission 2008 oil pan upgrade and 08 full flow filter. Flush and refill. Don't know which oil. Change external filter.
3. Change fuel filters and clean EGR.

Talked to last shop that worked on it about service records. Turns out engine oil & filter were changed one year ago, only 200 miles, with Delo 15W-40. The shop said it should be changed again. Looks really clean. Thinking about running it for a while.
 

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#10 ·
I just replaced my thermostat about 6 months ago and my ECT temps now stay pretty solid at 190.4. My EOT stays around 203 at 60mph with outdoor temps at 85. Since changing out my stat my deltas have stayed at the 13 mark. Consistency I think is important. If I have the cruise set at 78 my deltas stay around 14/15. I wouldn't sweat yours. Just monitor it and look for changes.

In case you were curious, before changing my stat my ECT temps never got about 175. My fuel economy was 12, post stat change my mileage is now 16. Diesels like to run hot. Cooler isn't better.
 
#11 ·
That's really interesting. I was at Ford parts desk yesterday, thinking about replacing the T-stat since I'm planning to remove it when flushing. The computer didn't list the temp rating. They brought one out and unboxed it. Stamped on it looked like a temp rating over 100 C. I thought that was too high so I didn't buy it.

What brand thermostat did you use? Motorcraft or aftermarket?

Thanks for the info!
 
#14 ·
What brand thermostat did you use? Motorcraft or aftermarket?
That depends on your use of the vehicle, your location, and how well your current t-stat is working. My stock one likes to be coy on occasion, and will sometimes wait until 206-208 degrees to open. Other times it opens around 190 and stays there. I bought the 200* Mishimoto to install before winter, as I sometimes see -15* in the mornings. If it starts being a problem next year when things warm up I'll just swap in a Motorcraft.
 
#13 ·
I used Motorcraft. I considered Mishimoto 200 degree stat but with a 13 degree delta I figure I'd stay a little cooler. I've only owned this truck for about 10 months. I've driven it from VA to FL in the summer and multiple trips out to the mountains. If I stay in the 13 range I may give a hotter stat a try. I don't pull really heavy so it would probably be ok. Main thing I think for you is to establish a baseline and then monitor. Other than a Sinister coolant filter I am all stock. So far so good but I do keep a close eye on my numbers and never drive without my Torque Pro running.
 
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#16 ·
Seems I'm past the critical first week or two, getting used to the 6.0 and so far haven't made any mistakes (knock on wood). At least none that caused any damage except to my VISA balance -- bought a few parts that aren't needed (yet).

Had the trans fluid flushed (as they call it) at Ford. Also changed the external filter which came off easy. Bought the '08 pan and filter, though worries are lower now and will replace those later.

Interestingly, Ford reset the PCM codes and they haven't come back on (for now). The turbo P0299 seems to have gone away and EGR P0404 gone too. As near as I can tell from monitoring the VGT duty cycle (?) and boost it doesn't seem to be stuck, or perhaps just not enough yet to trigger a code. I also added the Ford cetane fuel additive which I'm told could help over time to keep things clean.

Waiting on a new radiator. Will clean EGR and change fuel filters when changing radiator/hoses/t-stat and flushing coolant. The next task in coming weeks. Still have a few things to check and go through, but much more comfortable that the truck and engine are basically solid.

Adding a couple photos for entertainment sake.

Thanks again to all for the eyes, ears and comments. Much appreciated!
 

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#17 ·
Low contribution code(s) with one injector circuit low?

Hi all,

I disconnected #6 injector after it appeared to fail. Was in the middle of nowhere during a long trip and was a long way from help. Did that to avoid burning the piston trying to get back to civilization. That helped to begin with, but white exhaust increased over next 100 miles. Was showing P0278 (#6 low contribution) and now P0276 (#6 injector circuit low) which I expect is due to being disconnected.

Before ordering a new injector I wonder about the increased white smoke and possibility of other bad injectors. No new contribution codes are showing for other cylinders. Is it possible they aren't reported if an injector is disconnected and showing "injector low circuit"? Do I need to reconnect #6 and run it for some time for the PCM to evaluate all/other cylinders?

I'm worried bad fuel and/or filters caused #6 to fail, and maybe affected others. I changed the filters and they were dark and dirty, but no water.

Thanks in advance for thoughts/suggestions.
 
#19 ·
Long version...

I'm using Torque on a tablet with OBD bluetooth dongle. Was monitoring ECT/EOT and transmission temps, which all seemed fine while driving. About 50 miles after a fill-up at a truck stop (Vallero station), I started noticing white smoke. I forgot to add the Motocraft cetane additive at fill up, so added it then. Was pulling a trailer. EOT got as high as 230F with ECT around 215F on a long grade. Otherwise was running around 210 and 200. Continued about 50 miles more to where I could shut down. Scanned codes showed #6 low contribution. White smoke was quite heavy at idle and smelled of fuel. Didn't appear to be loosing coolant.

Changed fuel filters and they were dark and dirty; debated towing it back, but after disconnecting injector #6 it cleared up some, though not completely. Figured that would help protect against over fueling and with easy driving would get back to town on 7 cylinders. Never pushed it above 2000-2500 RPM. At 45 MPH it seemed to not smoke much. However by the time I got to town it was worse than before. I continually checked for new codes with the idea that if one injector failed, perhaps due to poor or lack of fuel others many be damaged too. None showed up with low contributions codes which has me puzzled. At the start of return trip 7 cylinders ran pretty well with only a slight miss. At shut down a few hours later it seemed to be missing more.

Which makes me wonder if it needs #6 connected to read cylinder misfires/contributions correctly. Don't want to run it more any more than necessary, which is why I'm asking if anyone knows.

In hindsight I should have spent a lot more time bulletproofing before starting a long trip. I'm finding out the hard way, these modern diesels are much less forgiving than the old Cummins and Detroits from decades ago!

Thanks.
 
#20 ·
Try swapping 6 with another one on the same bank. See if the code follows the injector. Use new seal kits
 
#21 ·
Interpreting IDS power balance test

Looking for some guidance interpreting a power balance test. This was run a few days ago at Ford.

I'm planning to pull it apart soon to replace injector #6 and fix some other issues (clean turbo and EGR valve). Wondering if the power balance test shows anything else to be concerned with at this point.

The truck is putting out heavy white smoke that doesn't dissipate. The shop said the smoke was fuel and not coolant. They also ran a relative compression test and it looked OK for what that's worth.
 

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#22 ·
Yep.

Cyl6 is done. The high peak indicates over fueling or leaking injector or stuck open. When it dips down it indicates lack of fuel or sticking closed. The amount up tells me its sticking open. If the smoke burns your eyes and reaks of fuel its an injector for sure. These 6.0's RARELY consume coolant unless a EGR cooler ruptures but the smoke smells sweet and rusty, if that makes sense....
 
#24 ·
To answer your question, 2 and 8 are down around 2% relative compression, noteworthy but not a serious problem right now. If that acceptable reduction of compression is due to rings, valves, head gaskets or injector sealing (external or internal) would take more work to do. All of the less then ideal cylinders are on the drivers head. If you're replacing injector 6 IMO it would be worth the time to pull the injector's from 2 and 8 and reseal them in case there is some leakage at the copper washers. The kits are cheap. It might not hurt at this point to pull the fuel filter cap and crank over the motor from the passenger fender jumper for 10 seconds to see if there are any compression bubbles in the fuel, indicating some injector leakage.

If you get to 5% I believe you'll be pulling the heads.
 
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#25 ·
I'll do both those things you mentioned - checking for bubbles and resealing other injectors. Thanks for the suggestions. (!!)

I suspect one contributing cause to it going bad was poor maintenance. It's a new-to-me truck and I hadn't yet changed fuel filters when it went south. There was no water in the filters, but they were both very dark and dirty.

I wondered about putting in new o-ring kits, and planned to do the standpipes and dummy plugs on the driver side while in there. One question I have is if it makes sense to do the blue spring kit now, or wait until the passenger side is upgraded and resealed - perhaps extra pressure is only asking for trouble until then. The turbo needs to come off for cleaning and right side injectors aren't too much more work after that.

I hate to say it, but I drove another 400 miles like this ignoring much good advice to have it towed. Happened to have new fuel filters and changed them, and drove it easy, not much more than 2K RPMs max. Still a bit worried.
 
#26 ·
I've had one injector that internally over fueled and the white smoke can cause a whole lot of worry. But 6 on the relative compression is not showing any decrease, so I would not expect any ring, piston or cylinder wall damage. You just need to get it done before it gets to the point of hydro lock. If you are going in there you should also lightly clean the injector bores and there is a pair of brushes for that. XDP has the best price on those and a Diesel10 discount code helps. You just don't want to get too aggressive.

Getting the filters changed on a used vehicle is always a priority unless you have the maintenance records. Either dirt from them or pressure restriction as I'm sure it sounds like you know can develop into scored injector plungers/needles. As long as the factory spring maintains pressure it should have been good. The blue spring just gives more leeway but is good for a fatigued factory spring.
 
#27 · (Edited)
I've been busy reading and getting parts ordered, including the injector brushes from XPD.

Found an article on the bubble test that explained it pretty good. Adding it here for reference so I don't forget.

Compression Bubble Test - DTS Articles

Thanks again for the input!
 
#28 ·
Advice on how far to go with repairs

I've been planning some repairs on a stock 6.0 and could use some advice.

Injector #6 is confirmed bad and needs to be replaced. I plan to first do a bubble test and if there's leakage consider replacing all injectors on that bank. If not then replace only #6 and reseal the other three injectors (recommended by another forum member). Also plan to upgrade stand pipe and dummy plug while there. (anything missing?)

My question is what about the right side and how much other work to do if any?

The turbo is sticking and needs reconditioning, and the radiator needs replacement. So I'll have those out and have better access to the right side. It's an E-Series van so the extra access from the front will help a lot. That's one reason to go further. On the other hand the degas bottle seems fine and deltas are about 8 degrees, and I don't know of any other problems. There's a risk whatever I do decreases the reliability rather than improves it.

Should I leave the right side alone or fix what isn't broken? I would probably limit it to dummy plug and stand pipe, new BPD EGR cooler, and maybe STC fitting but not sure about that. I'm not excited about digging into the right side if it seems OK, but don't want regrets either.

Thoughts/comments?

Thanks.
 
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