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post #1 of 11 Old 09-22-2009, 08:16 PM Thread Starter
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The REAL Cost ....

....... of modifications.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Warman, Shop Foreman Slave Lake Ford
So... It's no secret how I feel about "our carbon footprint"... being a old f*u*c*k, I lived through s*h*i*t you young guys will never understand nor appreciate.... Yussuf Islam opined "you're still young - that's your fault" in "Father And Son".... If we refuse to learn from our history, we are doomed to repeat it....

Anyway.... a couple of the guys were chatting about the cost... sorry, that should be the "cost" of EGR delete kits. To really appreciate the ramifications of something like this, one would have to research the tailpipe emissions that result from EGR deletes as well as the other changes that 'usually' accompany these kinds of modifications.

One of these techs was aghast at the thought of paying over $400 for an EGR delete... The old guy's brain didn't kick into gear until he got home ...

While $400 may appear to be quite an expense for a hose or two and a block off plate.... let us look at the "real" cost....

So.. ya want something to keep you from having this bothersome little f*u*c*k up called an EGR valve from making your life inconvenient...

Has anyone done much research on oxides of nitrogen? Has anyone done much research on tailpipe emissions in general? Some of you guys have children... one day those children will bear grandchildren...

I look around and, today, I see some of the most "fragile" people the world has ever produced. I can't say if the youth of yesteryear were more resilient or if we just didn't complain like todays youth.... I can't say if it is a case where-in we are becoming the product of our environment... I can't say if it is a case where we have beaten polio and rubela and all the other "childhood" diseases and now we have new s*h*i*t to replace them.

We have spent decades introducing pollutants into our environment... we accept the skyrocketing costs of our health care (quite grudgingly)... yet we view deleting an important emissions control device as "spending 400 bucks....).... with no regard for the costs that come AFTER the initial "investment"....

As amazing as it may sound.... "we" should be the experts at some of this stuff... "we" should research the results of our actions.... Need I say it again? "We" have been placed in a position of public trust.... And the best response we can muster is that "I will install that crap because another guy will install that crap..." (Repeat after me.... "Hey sailor... wanna get lucky?".

Look at it this way.... a professional doctor will adhere to correct methods and proven procedures... Quacks are a dime a dozen....
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post #2 of 11 Old 09-22-2009, 08:47 PM
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sounds like a enviro lover.

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post #3 of 11 Old 09-22-2009, 10:17 PM
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Hmmmmmmmm.
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post #4 of 11 Old 09-22-2009, 10:22 PM
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I don't know what to say about this. I need to sleep on it for a day or 2.

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post #5 of 11 Old 09-23-2009, 03:59 AM
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When I was a kid in the 60's and 70's, my parents said the world was going to hell in a handbasket. Their parents probably said the same thing. How easy they had it back then. What will our kids be saying when they reach our age? Probably the same thing.

The number of people modifying their PS's is fairly small. For every one that's been horsepowered up, there's probably ten or twenty that have not. If you want to look at it from an enviro point of view, just driving a diesel is a good thing. I'll put diesel exhaust up against gasoline exhaust any day. We use less fuel, our engines run more efficiently, they last longer so energy isn't wasted building a new engine and truck, and if we're lucky we can find a biodiesel blend, it's better than the pure dino stuff.

Having grown up on a farm, I used to think I was an enviro type, but I can see now I have respect for nature, not an overbloated ego. These global warming people have really put me off. Fact went out the window a long time ago. It's now my agenda versus your agenda, and I'm going to win even if I'm wrong. There are a lot more people in the world today, and we do need to keep an eye on pollution. What we don't need to do is bloat our pitiful little egos by championing fuzzy science, and bringing down a lot of laws that affect other people more than us.

Keep in mind the purpose of the egr - to keep combustion temperature down. The only real cost of taking it off is the potential damage to the engine from overheating the exhaust. That's what an exhaust temperature gauge is for.

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post #6 of 11 Old 09-23-2009, 04:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnO View Post
Keep in mind the purpose of the egr - to keep combustion temperature down. The only real cost of taking it off is the potential damage to the engine from overheating the exhaust. That's what an exhaust temperature gauge is for.
I don't see how that is

By introducing hot exhaust gasses back into the combustion chamber, your combustion temps will be higher. I have mine switched off with the SCT, and noticed a huge difference in how long it takes for my truck to cool down before I shut it off when I'm running the stock tune, the only difference being that the EGR is working is the stock tuning


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post #7 of 11 Old 09-23-2009, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnO View Post
Keep in mind the purpose of the egr - to keep combustion temperature down. The only real cost of taking it off is the potential damage to the engine from overheating the exhaust. That's what an exhaust temperature gauge is for.
Eh, wrong about the real cost. EGRs keep exhaust cooler to limit production of NOx NOx is a well know toxic agent in the air. This isn't envirowhacko talk- its real. Companies spend millions in pollution controls to limit NOx. Exhaust temp wont help you here other than to know how likely you are to emit higher NOx quantities.

EGR works by limiting O2 to an extent. Basically it muddies up the waters in the combustion chamber.

As for what NOx does- If you've ever seen smog- Yeap, large part NOx product. Acid rain...its real.

I'm not an envirowhacko, but I do believe in a little bit of personal responsibility. Sure your EGR delete doesn't matter...but yours, plus everyone else doing it plus sloppy engines, it adds up...just something to think about.


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post #8 of 11 Old 09-23-2009, 08:26 PM
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So if you're a true environmentalist, then you will take into effect that every time EPA comes up with some new scheme to save the environment that each manufacturer has to scrap old equipment and buy new. Then companies that manufacture this said emissions equipment have to scrap old equipment and retool to manufacture new parts and programs. Then once it's built, it has to be hauled by emissions producing equipment (that oh by the way doesn't meet new emissions standards and has to be re-equipped with new products to meet spec or scrapped and new trucks have to be purchased be to new standards). All of this new production and retooling requires more training and cost in terms of labor hours, mother earth has to be dug into again to meet demand, then manufacturing plants pour out smog to produce all this new stuff, new plastics are made that aren't biodegradable and will fill landfills for lifetimes to come, (I REALLY CAN GO ON IF YOU'D LIKE) and your worried about freakin NOx?!?!?!?!?!? ARE YOU SERIOUS? You sir may lack proper education or maybe you have failed to see what the bigger picture is. You can offset a little NOx emissions by sending your freshly canned EGR to a recycling plant or cutting back on eating six double cheeseburgers today. You think that you can blame someone who wants to improve the longevity of their vehicle for the ruin of earth. Maybe by driving a vehicle for another 10 years instead of scrapping after it is out of warranty these said people are doing just that. Look at the plank in your own eye before trying to remove a speck from another's eye. Maybe you drink water from plastic bottles that are polluting the earth at a much faster rate than a couple block off plates. Maybe you waste food or drive unnecessarily. Maybe you just need to live and let live and realize that everyone isn't on the same page that your moaning and groaning aren't going to change anything. In fact do you do anything other than complain? Are you involved in an environmental group or do you donate to environmental causes? I thought not. THAT'S WHAT I'D SAY TO HIM!!
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post #9 of 11 Old 09-23-2009, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FordDizzle View Post
So if you're a true environmentalist, then you will take into effect that every time EPA comes up with some new scheme to save the environment that each manufacturer has to scrap old equipment and buy new. Then companies that manufacture this said emissions equipment have to scrap old equipment and retool to manufacture new parts and programs. Then once it's built, it has to be hauled by emissions producing equipment (that oh by the way doesn't meet new emissions standards and has to be re-equipped with new products to meet spec or scrapped and new trucks have to be purchased be to new standards). All of this new production and retooling requires more training and cost in terms of labor hours, mother earth has to be dug into again to meet demand, then manufacturing plants pour out smog to produce all this new stuff, new plastics are made that aren't biodegradable and will fill landfills for lifetimes to come, (I REALLY CAN GO ON IF YOU'D LIKE) and your worried about freakin NOx?!?!?!?!?!? ARE YOU SERIOUS? You sir may lack proper education or maybe you have failed to see what the bigger picture is. You can offset a little NOx emissions by sending your freshly canned EGR to a recycling plant or cutting back on eating six double cheeseburgers today. You think that you can blame someone who wants to improve the longevity of their vehicle for the ruin of earth. Maybe by driving a vehicle for another 10 years instead of scrapping after it is out of warranty these said people are doing just that. Look at the plank in your own eye before trying to remove a speck from another's eye. Maybe you drink water from plastic bottles that are polluting the earth at a much faster rate than a couple block off plates. Maybe you waste food or drive unnecessarily. Maybe you just need to live and let live and realize that everyone isn't on the same page that your moaning and groaning aren't going to change anything. In fact do you do anything other than complain? Are you involved in an environmental group or do you donate to environmental causes? I thought not. THAT'S WHAT I'D SAY TO HIM!!
i agree 100%


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post #10 of 11 Old 09-23-2009, 08:38 PM
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subscribed.....dont have time to write a response now
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