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Old 05-22-2013, 05:30 PM
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Question Need help, 2002 F350 no start

Drove my 02 F350 Lariat 7.3 to get some diesel this morning and it wouldn't start after fueling. It's been running like a champ since I bought it three years ago.

Here are the symptoms:
- Engine will turn over (strong), but will not start
- "Wait to start" light won't go off
- My tuner wants to reload itself like when I initially installed it; can't communicate with the vehicle; Edge CTS Diesel tuner
- Can't pull any codes with my hand held scanner; "unable to connect with vehicle" or something like that
- starter will spin and engine will turn over but will not "fire" or "sputter" at all
- Fuel pump does not run when key is turned to start position
- I can still hear what I think is the glow plugs and normal start-up and clicking noises going on under the dash and in engine bay

Here is what I've checked and done so far:
- Both batteries checked and are good
- Replaced the ignition switch under the colum with a new one
- Replaced the Cam Position Sensor with a new sensor
- Checked all fuses visually and with a meter
- Pulled known good blower motor relay and put in all starting relay positions with no change
- Checked fuseable link under hood behind air box; good
- Oil level full
- Moved relays around in two black boxes behind air box and checked with a meter to the best of my ability; no change
- Cigar lighter works; on same fuse as OBD II connector
- Jumped fuel pump with test leads and it works with direct power applied
- Checked fuel shut-off in passenger side kick panel; it was good
- Tried loading the factory tune with a hand-held tuner; tuner gets to the point where tells me to turn the key on; I turn the key on and wait; tuner times out and acts like it doesn't know the key is on, so won't load
- Moved the transmission shifter around to park and neutral to try and start; no luck

Does anyone have any ideas on what is causing this? I suspect it may be a bad PCM. If I can find a PCM in the junk yard, can I swap it in and will it work with my truck? Any help is greatly appreciated. Sorry for the long post...
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:58 PM
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Sounds like PCM to me, I believe you can swap the PCM and get it to run, but it probably needs to be flashed to match miles and vin.
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Old 05-23-2013, 05:02 AM
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Thanks for the reply. I know there are many things that can cause a no-start in these trucks, but with all the symptoms I think that the PCM is the common denominator. I've searched everywhere and looked at threads on many forums. So far, I haven't found any that match all my symptoms. What confuses me is how the tuner and my scan tool cannot do anything. It's like the PCM has shut down.

Anyone else have advice?
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Old 05-23-2013, 12:58 PM
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Update:

Last night I pulled the PCM in attempts to find another one today. Found one that a salvage yard can get, but decided to hold off for now. I installed the old PCM for now and decided to do more tests. I opened the drain on the fuel/water separator and am not getting fuel there when I turn the key. Door locks started acting funny, going up and down without stopping for about 3 minutes. I then pulled fuse #19 to get the VSM to shut down. I have had a known problem with the VSM for quite some time now. Here are the symtoms I have:

Door lock switches inside the truck don't work.
The dome light will not go out even while driving.
The auto headlights don't work.
The door locks will not auto lock at 5mph.
The radio stays on with the key out and the door is open.
The alarm works intermitantly.
The door ajar light will not come on with any door open.

Anyway, funny thing then happened. The wait to start light went off and I was actually able to start the truck. I let in idle for about 3 minutes and when I pushed the accelerator, it cut off. I hooked up my code scanner and it had no codes stored. I then started to install a factory tune with a hand-held tuner. It got to about 8% done when the truck went back to the previous condition, whatever that was (non-starting and not doing anything).

Does or will the VSM keep the vehicle from starting? It acts, in some ways, like an anti-theft system has kicked in not allowing access to the PCM to start the engine.

Any advice?
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Old 05-23-2013, 03:48 PM
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Off the top-of-my-head, I can't imaging how the VSM would do that...

Have you looked at the OD wire, under the column? Chafed there it will cause problems with the TPS.

What are you using to scan your truck? You know most OBD-II scanners don't work right for this engine...
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Old 05-23-2013, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoRalPh View Post
Off the top-of-my-head, I can't imaging how the VSM would do that...

Have you looked at the OD wire, under the column? Chafed there it will cause problems with the TPS.

What are you using to scan your truck? You know most OBD-II scanners don't work right for this engine...

I have not looked at the OD wire under the column. I will look at that first thing in the morning. I am using an Actron scanner that I bought at AutoZone. My tuner has a code scanner built in, but I've also never had any issues with pulling codes from any vehicle with this scanner. At least that I know of...
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Old 05-24-2013, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoRalPh View Post
Off the top-of-my-head, I can't imaging how the VSM would do that...

Have you looked at the OD wire, under the column? Chafed there it will cause problems with the TPS.

What are you using to scan your truck? You know most OBD-II scanners don't work right for this engine...
I checked the OD wire and all looks good. Thanks for the info! Anything else I need to check?
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Old 05-24-2013, 06:16 AM
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Tried disco'ing the ICP and EBP sensors and fuel heater sensor. Still no start.
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Old 05-24-2013, 06:23 AM
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Well, first that AZ scanner isn't up to the task of pulling codes from our trucks (obviously not the reason you're having the No Start, but it would be nice to have the right tool to help you figure this out)

What you have is a Generic OBD-II code reader. These engines are Not, specifically, OBD-II but rather a variant called SAE J1850 PWM. Added to that, you need the library of Ford Proprietary and Diesel Specific codes and the software to do those diagnostic tests. Most here use the AutoEnginuity for personal use or most any professional scanner (which none of the Auto Parts Stores have).

BUT, your scanner should be able to communicate and pull generic codes. If it's not, then either the PCM is dead or in a "confused" state OR the port and wiring to it have a problem (take a look into the port for signs of green or corrosion).

If there's no fuel in the filter housing, it's not gonna run. Have you tried supplying 12v to the pump (you said it will run then) and seeing if it will start?

Some of my thoughts are;

If it turns-over on the starter it's not the NSSW

The WTS being On is a sign the PCM has some power to it

The lack of a fuel pump running is a sign the PCM isn't doing it's job (maybe check the GPR as a another sign of the PCM functioning as it should)

Just for S&G's try disconnecting both batteries and short the cables together for a bit to reset all the electronics. Maybe unplug the ICP, take a good look at the IPR to be sure the wires and plug are in good shape (not shorting) and the Tin Nut hasn't vibrated off allowing the coil to slide around. This is all a Hail Mary, but it's free!

I see you're aware of the other thread with similar problems. Keep an eye on that
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:06 AM
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NoRalPh, I have disconnected the ICP and EBP sensors with no change to the starting condition. I looked for the IPR, but have been unable to find it. I will search for pictures or diagrams and see if all is good. It just seems wierd to me that a sensor being bad will cause the PCM no communications issue. I feel that a new PCM may fix the problem but hate to spend the $250 to $350 on one if it doesn't.

When you say to short the battery cables together, are you meaning to touch the negatives to positives on each battery location?

What is a NSSW? Neutral Safety Switch?

Thanks for you inputs!
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cam sensor, ignition power, no start, obd, pcm

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