05 Super Duty 6.0 NO START HELP! - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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  #1  
Old 06-19-2012, 04:45 PM
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05 Super Duty 6.0 NO START HELP!

So yesterday I fired up the truck like any other normal time and it started but was blowing a lot of blue smoke out and was running really rough. Skipping studdering rough. I let it sit for a few than drove off blowing more blue smoke out and having little power still studdering. I drove for a few untill it warmed up and it came out of it, no blue smoke, no skip, studder tons of power. Drove around for awile had to do errends shut it off, came back out a few later started up but the check engine light came on. No other issues drove it around fine. Fast forward today, went to start it and nothing spin over fine but no catch.

I read on swamps page on how to check voltage on the FCIM and it was reading 48V so thats good.

I replaced the fuel filters after work today and it spins over and fires but still runs really rough and than stauls out. I cycled the key did this a few times and sill runs rough but if you lay on the peddle comes out sounds great than let off gets rough agian

Fuel computer
Fuel pump
Fuel injectors

any help to where I should start looking would be great

THANKS =)
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Old 06-19-2012, 08:36 PM
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well just so you know blue smoke is oil burning. i'd check codes, since you have an engine light. i'd suspect an icp fault
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Old 06-20-2012, 03:14 AM
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I kinda figured it was oil burning i checked oil an it seemd fine. I was thinking maybe turbo seal or something. What is ICP? and yesterday i changed filters it started ran real rough now today wont start at all but hteres no check engine light would there still be codes present?
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Old 06-20-2012, 02:01 PM
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will a bad injector show up on the computer when scanning it im getting it towed to the diesel shop to put on computer check fuel pressure and load test bats
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Old 06-20-2012, 04:32 PM
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I had a no start condition with my truck that was a fairly simple fix. My truck sat for 2 weeks and believe me I was pissed!! I would check the IPC valve first... only because of my personal experience. Its a bit of a pain to get to, and you need a special tool or make one. I opted for the latter. The IPC is on your HPOP facing the driver side. Its easiest removed by removing your expansion tank and just setting it aside. You shouldnt have to even remove hoses. The IPC is a bit buried behind the driver side valve cover. Disconnect the electrical connector and remove. Get an IPC socket or make one out of a 35mm socket. You will need a deep well socket with about a 1" slit down the side, and possibly thin up the sidewall at the top of the socket. Its very easy to remove with the right tool. Once it is removed, check the screen on the tip of the IPC. If it is sucked in and looks like an inverted nipple, then that is your problem. Debris in the oil causes this (among other things) and you will need a new IPC. About $225 from the stealership. Since it sounds like you are burning oil, you may have bad oil or debris in it, or perhaps a heavy draw could cause the IPC to fail. Whats your oil level? I am no expert, but I have had this engine torn down to a short block, and have experienced many issues with my truck. I know a lot about crank no start conditions. I will be happy to answer any further questions, and will check your post regularly to help you out as best I can.

There are several things that need to occur for these trucks to start. I cant remember them all or the exact details, so hopefully someone will chime in a help/correct me.


FUEL_PW is the fuel pulse width data. In other words, the actual "on-time" the injectors are commanded to remain open for (for every FRACTION of a given second the fuel injector remains OPEN, there is that minute amount of fuel being sprayed into the combustion chamber). If FUEL_PW is indicating 0, it means fuel is NOT being sprayed (and hence fuel not being delivered).

FICM_SYNC will either indicate NO or YES. When it indicates YES, it simply means the PCM and FICM are "shaking hands" (a. k. a. communicating with each other). At key-on/engine-off, it should indicate NO obviously. As soon as you crank the engine over, it should switch to YES, indicating that the FICM will "know" which injector to "open" and WHEN to "open" it. If FICM_SYNC indicates NO when you crank the engine over, the engine will not start.

SYNC is the data that will indicate (with either a NO or YES reading) whether or not the crank and cam sensors are doing their jobs, to indicate that the cam and crank are in proper time with each other. When SYNC indicates YES as you crank the engine over, that simply means the PCM now "knows" where every cylinder is and which stroke each cylinder is at (taking its reference from cylinder #1 of course). If SYNC indicates NO, the engine will not start.

ICP volts is the voltage reading returned to the PCM by the ICP sensor on your passenger side valve cover under any given condition. You should be seeing a reading of between 0.15 to 0.35 at key-on/engine-off (but usually around 0.24 volts is what I see). If you are getting whacked out voltage readings from the sensor at key-on/engine-off, this could mean you have a biased sensor (or a wiring issue). When the engine is cranked over, you need to see a MINIMUM of 0.8 volts (usually rises to 1.5 immediately when things are right) in order for the FICM to command the injectors to "fire", failing which the engine will not start.

ICP psi is the data read by the above mentioned ICP sensor "translated" to psi reading, which you need to see a MINIMUM of 500 psi in order for the FICM to command the injectors to "fire". Any less than the 500, the engine will not start.

ICP desired is the Injector Control Pressure the PCM "wants to see" under various engine operating conditions. To monitor the performance of the high pressure oil system, both ICP psi and ICP desired should almost always mirror each other. When you see ICP psi (or ICP actual) fall below the desired readings, that would indicate a problem in the high pressure oil system.

IPR duty cycle is the data (in %) that indicates the amount of Injector Pressure Regulator "closing" is being done. The IPR valve defaults in the OPEN position, dumping all high pressure oil pump output to the crankcase. You should see a 14.84% duty cycle at key-on/engine-off. When you crank the engine over, you should see it rise to about 50% before the engine starts. Now, if you have a high pressure oil system leak, it will likely max out to 84.77% indicating the IPR valve has fully closed, and if there still isn't sufficient ICP to enable the engine to start, you likely have a problem with high pressure oil system output, a high pressure oil system leak, or a failed IPR valve.

RPM is the engine speed. I won't bother with that, since you likely know what that means, if you are no stranger to turning wrenches. All I am going to say though, is you should see an engine cranking speed of between 150 to 210. Anything much less than that, and you have weak batteries or a "tight" engine. Too much faster than that, then you have low compression.

V-BATT is the system voltage which again, I don't think I need to explain. All I am going to say though, is it should not drop to less than 9.5 volts while you crank the engine over or the PCM will shut down, which again means it won't start.

All Credit goes to m-chan68, because he is the person that has supplied me with all of this knowledge. He has helped me out tremendously in the past, and I supply you with this info so I can continue to help others like he helped me. He would be a great person on here to help you if you need further assistance.

Good luck!
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Old 06-20-2012, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtNuttN8 View Post
will a bad injector show up on the computer when scanning it im getting it towed to the diesel shop to put on computer check fuel pressure and load test bats
GENERALLY speaking an injector will not cause a no start condition. and yes the codes will still be stored in continuous memory. the two types of diagnostic codes are cm or od. or on demand (happening now) or continuous memory (has happened before).
icp stands for injection control pressure. it is high oil pressure that allows the injectors to fire.
you have an 05, i'd lean towards an stc fitting or dummy/ rail plugs.
basically they get torn o rings in them.
as the post above me stated icp should be around 500 to start, but if its right at 500, i'd still suspect a weak system.
what happens is your hpop builds up pressure and can't hold the pressure despite the ipr opening and closing. so if you can't build oil pressure than you can't open injectors, therefore no start condition
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Old 06-21-2012, 05:48 AM
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wow thanks for that reply im just really pissed becuase I just dropped 3k on the front end (my unit bearings let go and took out both locking hubs) and than my alternator went, and now this. I went home and checked the ICP(the part on the pass side valve cover) I found a video on you tube and it showed similer situation wont start he pulled the conector and tried starting fired right up.. unfortunently that iddnt happen with mine.

It now starts with the icp plugged in or not but runs REAL ROUGH like scary rapping and knocking bad and smokes real bad out the stacks.. and also has a wierd smell like not deisel smell (maybe I got a shot of crappy fuel?) I might post a video later after work.

But it smooths out if you press down on peddle. smokes clears up and sounds normal than let off and sounds like its comming undone. Thats what makes me think its either fuel pump is dying or injectors but im no expert im new to diesels and this is leaving a bad taste in my mouth.
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Old 06-21-2012, 08:35 AM
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whats the best way to find out if you blew a head gasket? im getting a lot of white smoke and im thinking that could be the problem. Check coolent?

also the guy before me that had the truck said he installed a EGR delete what does it look like I want to find out if i have one or not because after reading a lot thats a major fail of these motors also
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Old 06-21-2012, 11:39 AM
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if you are staring at the truck look below the turbo on the left hand side. that is where your egr cooler would be, bolted to the bottom of the intake. if you just have a tube down there, then the system has been deleted. but headgaskets and egr coolers, are not usually assosciated with drivability concerns. unless you hydrolocked your motor from them leaking way to bad. in either case, i'd recommend cycling your key multiple times to let the glow plugs evaporate any coolant that might be in the cylinder walls, if it does have a cooler or head gasket issue. but keep in mind, if you don't have a low coolant level, then you probably don't have an issue.
bad fuel is a definite possibility though. what i'd recommend is draining your water in fuel valve into a clear container. the water will seperate from the fuel and will be very noticeable, but generally the injectors won't recover from just raising the rpm. and a weak fuel pump will show a lack of power and heavy rpm.
unplugging your icp sensor will only prove that the icp sensor is not bad. if you have an icp leak it will cause a rough run at idle or no start. or dies when hot. but if you elevate the rpm more oil pressure is demanded, which will make the leak less noticeable and still fire the injectors. if you can get your truck to start, i'd recommend getting it super hot (to thin the oil). just rev it up in your driveway until the fan comes on full duty cycle, it will be very loud. then i'd turn off the truck and see if it starts. if it doesn't start i'd say definately an icp leak problem. as hot oil is thinner, and the system will not be able to build required icp pressure because thinner oil leaks easier.
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Old 06-21-2012, 03:12 PM
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Funny thing today I jumpped one last time into the truck tosee if i can make any sense of this. Wrapping coughing hacking but not as bad as the other day. I said well it cant hurt and took it for a spin down the road. Blowing smoke out the stacks underpowerd almost stauling out... but than all of a sudden she started purrring. Came right out of it and now she runs fine.. I must have got some ****ty fuel or something im so happy right now... Im still getting it taken to the diesel shop to have it looked at to make sure all is well but as of right now shes purrring like the happy diesel she was
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