Cranks but no start and no wait to start or tuner power - strange - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 09-20-2009, 03:49 PM Thread Starter
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Exclamation Cranks but no start and no wait to start or tuner power - strange

Ok... just went out to fire up the 7.3 and it started to crank right up, but then died after having caught (just about 1/2 second after I let go of the key.) I thought that very odd and went to start it up again... but this time the Wait to Start Light won't light up, My DP tuner switch does nothing (nothing on the display at all -- no power) and when I turn the key, it just turns the engine... oh and no RPMS show on the dash.

That last bit about no RPMs makes me want to say CPS, but I just had the recall done 6 months ago and the lack of power to the other items has me wondering... grabbing a different CPS right now to try out, but looking for ideas as I am very doubtful

Note -- nothing leading up to this... just happened without warning... only thing out of the ordinary is I have been driving on bumpy dirt roads more than normal lately...

Thanks in advance...

Early 99 F250
DP Tuner Tunes/Autometer Gauges
4R100 Brian's Truck Shop Tranny/6.0 cooler
Kitty Delete Walker BTM
285 75 R16 Cooper ST-Max Stancor Relay
HPOP Crossover Line, 203F Thermostat, Cold Weather Mods,
Wheel bearings updated to Late 99-03
-58F, 250k+ miles and still Powerstroke (7.3)Loyal
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post #2 of 14 Old 09-20-2009, 03:55 PM
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check the fuses under the hood, specifically the #22 spot. a no wait to start light a on 7.3L usually means that fuse was blown.

if you see a light at the end of the tunnel, it's probably just a photon torpedo
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post #3 of 14 Old 09-20-2009, 04:25 PM Thread Starter
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Fuses

Interestingly enough... #22 fuse was fine but # 4 was burned out... (yes looking at ones under hood and not in cab)

replaced #4, still nothing -- shouldn't matter anyhow though since I believe that #4 has to do with my towing lights (it blew out once before while launching a boat if I recall correctly)

I think step 1 is new CPS since I am not seeing any RPMS when cranking... but the no power to my DP tuner, nor a wait to start light have me concerned that I am barking up either the wrong tree or at the very least one that has more than one branch...

Early 99 F250
DP Tuner Tunes/Autometer Gauges
4R100 Brian's Truck Shop Tranny/6.0 cooler
Kitty Delete Walker BTM
285 75 R16 Cooper ST-Max Stancor Relay
HPOP Crossover Line, 203F Thermostat, Cold Weather Mods,
Wheel bearings updated to Late 99-03
-58F, 250k+ miles and still Powerstroke (7.3)Loyal
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post #4 of 14 Old 09-20-2009, 06:23 PM Thread Starter
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2 hours daylight remaining - CPS not it

Ok, I have 2 hours of daylight or so remaining, replaced the CPS, no dice. Also tried removing the fuel bowl heater plug, still no dice...

I am not still not getting power to my DP tuner, nor getting a Wait to start light... batteries are strong and cranking well, but still no hint of starting...

Tried swapping relays 30 & 31 as I was wondering if my PCM relay was dead...still no dice

All fuses including in cab and under hood are checked with multimeter for continuity...

Running short on time, advice welcomed!!!

Early 99 F250
DP Tuner Tunes/Autometer Gauges
4R100 Brian's Truck Shop Tranny/6.0 cooler
Kitty Delete Walker BTM
285 75 R16 Cooper ST-Max Stancor Relay
HPOP Crossover Line, 203F Thermostat, Cold Weather Mods,
Wheel bearings updated to Late 99-03
-58F, 250k+ miles and still Powerstroke (7.3)Loyal
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post #5 of 14 Old 09-20-2009, 07:15 PM Thread Starter
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Swapped Relay 30 for known good relay

Ok, I removed the fuel bowl heater plug... then swapped relay #30 out with a known good relay... still no wait to start light...

Now I am trying disconnecting the batteries for 5 minutes then reattaching... hoping to clear some memory... (EDIT this did not work)

Also downloaded the operators guide and checked EVERY SINGLE FUSE that had anything to do with the PCM...contacts and all (not just continuity test as done earlier)

I need to know how to check for voltage getting to this relay and to the PCM... where are my check points?

Early 99 F250
DP Tuner Tunes/Autometer Gauges
4R100 Brian's Truck Shop Tranny/6.0 cooler
Kitty Delete Walker BTM
285 75 R16 Cooper ST-Max Stancor Relay
HPOP Crossover Line, 203F Thermostat, Cold Weather Mods,
Wheel bearings updated to Late 99-03
-58F, 250k+ miles and still Powerstroke (7.3)Loyal

Last edited by AlaskanEngineer; 09-20-2009 at 07:19 PM. Reason: Disconnect/Reconnect did not work
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post #6 of 14 Old 09-20-2009, 08:54 PM Thread Starter
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Specific Question - Checking for Voltage to PCM

Ok... I tore my PCM out and checked the connection of my DP tuner... put it all back together... still nothing....

Thus I now have 2 conclusions:

A. Relay is not getting proper exciter voltage to kick on

or

B. My PCM is Fried!! (and I want to know WHY)

So how can I check for voltage getting to my PCM? (Essentially how do I check the output of that relay #30??)

Thanks

Early 99 F250
DP Tuner Tunes/Autometer Gauges
4R100 Brian's Truck Shop Tranny/6.0 cooler
Kitty Delete Walker BTM
285 75 R16 Cooper ST-Max Stancor Relay
HPOP Crossover Line, 203F Thermostat, Cold Weather Mods,
Wheel bearings updated to Late 99-03
-58F, 250k+ miles and still Powerstroke (7.3)Loyal
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post #7 of 14 Old 09-20-2009, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskanEngineer View Post
Ok... I tore my PCM out and checked the connection of my DP tuner... put it all back together... still nothing....

Thus I now have 2 conclusions:

A. Relay is not getting proper exciter voltage to kick on

or

B. My PCM is Fried!! (and I want to know WHY)

So how can I check for voltage getting to my PCM? (Essentially how do I check the output of that relay #30??)

Thanks
im guessing this. . . have you checked the codes?

soon to go?:
2000 f-250

soon to come?:
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post #8 of 14 Old 09-20-2009, 09:44 PM Thread Starter
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Exclamation Have not checked codes

cliford,

I was under the impression that if there were any codes, I would get an SES light... I don't... am I mistaken on that one?

Next, I was pretty sure that when the PCM fries, you cannot connect to pull codes... Correct?

If it is fried, could it have taken my DP tuner with it, or perhaps vise versa?

Again, how can I be sure its getting power? has to be something I can check for power to the PCM...

Early 99 F250
DP Tuner Tunes/Autometer Gauges
4R100 Brian's Truck Shop Tranny/6.0 cooler
Kitty Delete Walker BTM
285 75 R16 Cooper ST-Max Stancor Relay
HPOP Crossover Line, 203F Thermostat, Cold Weather Mods,
Wheel bearings updated to Late 99-03
-58F, 250k+ miles and still Powerstroke (7.3)Loyal
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post #9 of 14 Old 09-21-2009, 06:40 PM Thread Starter
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Talking Bad contact in fuse block - Problem Solved

Ok... so tonight I decided to step through the system one contact at a time.

Started with the relay #30... looking for B+ (battery) voltage against ground... check

Trigger voltage (KeyPWR) approximately 1.8 VDC... way below needed threshold voltage for tripping the relay.

KeyPWR voltage on the relay for the blower motor however was fine at 11.8VDC ... thus I was pretty certain it wasn't in my key/tumbler system.

Looked over the fuse block again, both under hood and in cab... pulled all fuses related to the PCM... when I pulled Fuse 30 from in the cab I noticed some black oxidation on the contacts (not heavy -- just a dusting)... so I cleaned it off and put it back in -- still nothing... but that got me thinking about how the contacts in the fuse block must look... just for kicks I checked the resistance across the contacts on the fuse block itself... noticed that I had HIGH resistance... then I checked voltage drop with key on... had about 10VDC drop across the fuse... 10V + 1.8 V = 11.8V which is what I had on the trigger voltage for the other relay... so I cleaned the crap out of the contacts for the fuse... presto it works!! guessing someone prior to me blew the fuse pretty bad and the resultant mess caused poor contact in the block itself... little bit of time, little bit of oxidation, little less voltage until one day there just wasn't enough to trip the relay... thus no power to the PCM or DP tuner

Thus closes my issue... hope it helps the other folks out there with similar problems...

Early 99 F250
DP Tuner Tunes/Autometer Gauges
4R100 Brian's Truck Shop Tranny/6.0 cooler
Kitty Delete Walker BTM
285 75 R16 Cooper ST-Max Stancor Relay
HPOP Crossover Line, 203F Thermostat, Cold Weather Mods,
Wheel bearings updated to Late 99-03
-58F, 250k+ miles and still Powerstroke (7.3)Loyal

Last edited by AlaskanEngineer; 09-21-2009 at 06:46 PM. Reason: Finished a thought
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post #10 of 14 Old 09-21-2009, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskanEngineer View Post
Looked over the fuse block again, both under hood and in cab... pulled all fuses related to the PCM... when I pulled Fuse 30 from in the cab I noticed some black oxidation on the contacts (not heavy -- just a dusting)... so I cleaned it off and put it back in -- still nothing... but that got me thinking about how the contacts in the fuse block must look... just for kicks I checked the resistance across the contacts on the fuse block itself... noticed that I had HIGH resistance... then I checked voltage drop with key on... had about 10VDC drop across the fuse... 10V + 1.8 V = 11.8V which is what I had on the trigger voltage for the other relay... so I cleaned the crap out of the contacts for the fuse... presto it works!! guessing someone prior to me blew the fuse pretty bad and the resultant mess caused poor contact in the block itself... little bit of time, little bit of oxidation, little less voltage until one day there just wasn't enough to trip the relay... thus no power to the PCM or DP tuner
As a Ford dealer tech I would like to say KUDOS to you for solving your own problem.

As one of my instructors used to say, "VOLTAGE DROPS, VOLTAGE DROPS, VOLTAGE DROPS" and "CHECK THE BASICS, CHECK THE BASICS, CHECK THE BASICS".

http://www.yorkdaleford.com/service.html

Ford Diesel/Senior/Master Tech who placed 2nd overall in Ontario on the Fix-It-Right-First-Visit score for 2010

....who works at a dealership that now employs SOME half decent looking female employees since they overhauled most of the administrative staff

....but STILL loves hot women with big boobies

....and STILL hates working on E-Series with 6.0L
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