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Runs rough warm cold always.

3K views 18 replies 5 participants last post by  nwidholm 
#1 ·
I have been reading posts on several forums and have learned a lot so far. I have also asked on several forums but after buying the AE replies stopped. I have ideas but little cash. I want to verify failure before throwing what little money I have at the truck. Thanks for your patience and I hope we can figure this out.

So I started with going to Ford for my CPS recall. Truck immediately started running bad. Hate Dealers. Replaced new CPS took 10 minutes and 2 bandaids, still have no idea what cut my fingers.

Sputtering/ rough running is mostly noticed at idle to mid RPM 1500 range. High speed is smoother only due to rpms. There are sharp misses with almost a ping or knock each time. Motor sounds like it is running on 6 cylinders. I have read several posts most changed filter with short term success, ICP IPR and UVCH with limited success. Short of the shotgun approach I bought an AE scanner to keep from just R&R at random. I am retired and have time and several cars to drive for now. I want to do this right and replace only what needs replacing or is about time to replace due to mileage and convenience. If I pull valve covers I might as well replace glowplugs while I am open.....

I ran a few tests with AE. I ran a codes test and there were several old codes with overhead monitor, wipers and such. I ran KOEO and cleared with no hits. I ran KOER several times and got cleared most the time but once got P0272 CYL #4 Bal Fault???

The buzz test was 100% normal. All sounded similar and even.

I then monitored the motor with the following results

RPM 654...............ICP 487-495......................ICP DC 9.77
ACCPosit 10.2% ....EXBP 11.89........................ICP Volt 0.83
Eng Oil Temp 154...Vol Fuel 4.9........................FI Pulse 1.92

RPM 3100.............ICP 974.............................ICP DC 9.77
ACC Posit 30%......EXBP 21.............................ICP Volt 1.73
Eng Oil Temp 162...Vol Fuel 13.4.......................FI Pulse 1.55


When the throttle was WOT and climbing the ICP maxed at 1700 and the ACC Posit was 71% This is a little lower than the results should have been but does not explain the rough motor. I was really hoping to see much different results. I am tempted to believe the fuel tank is the only problem. If any one has an AE that wants to chime in and point the way I am humbly at your mercy.

I am leading towards needing the Hutch mod and cleaning the tank out. The results are very close to norm but fuel seems a bit low. I think a slight restriction on supply is causing the low HPOP results. I also filled the tank to eliminate the 1/4 tank air issues. I replaced the fuel filter under the hood.

Am I missing something? Is there better tests to run? I am pricing valve cover gaskets and UVCH just in case. I really do not want to throw away money. I just retired and am living on 60% of my pay now.


Truck has 148000 miles or so. Banks upgrades on turbo and wastegate. Someones chip was installed but it is old and no label left to ID it. I think it is a Hypermax chip. I have removed it for now to get to the bottom of problem solving. Truck has run like a striped ape pulling crazy loads when I wanted and passing Porsches and Mustangs like they were Gremlins and Pintos. This is new to the last 200 miles and getting worse by the 20 mile increments. I am now concerned with driving more than a few miles from home, let alone pulling any load at all.
 
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#2 ·
I am a firm believer in eying the wires that go to wastegate, fuel heater, IPR, ICP, etc..special attention to where the wires emerge from the protective sleeves and point of plug attachment.

I had a no start problem and was told camshaft sensor...replaced it and no go still...turns out it was multiple wiring breaks or almost breaks...resoldered and GO GO!

I had a similar problem to yours, once. Ran fine much of the time, but had a hitch that felt like a backfire/big miss. Power ebbed. Turns out it was the under the valve cover harness losing contact. There is a Ford fix for it...a clip that holds the harness tightly, I think.
 
#3 ·
Thanks for the tip. I have tested the heck out of it even with it sputtering and bucking it tests good. I still am thinking since electrically it tests good it must be a fuel delivery problem. Today I am crawling under the hood again to check the wires engine off and on.
 
#4 ·
i like you am having the same troubles. I have thrown uvc harnesses new injectors and an idm in and truck still runs rough, i am at a total loss on mine so if you have any luck please share and ill do the same. i have the #8 failing the contribution test and it is a 2 day old alliant. i am supposed to get gauges tomorrow to test fuel pressure and restriction, thats my last hope cause i am broke broke broke.
 
#5 ·
Today I will start dropping the tank and doing the Hutch Mod. I see this as the most likely repair and fortunately the least expensive. I am also changing the air filter early as it showed 3/4 used and was quiet dusty. Not sure where the extra dust came from but for $14 it too is a cheep fix. Minus the rubber fuel line the hutch mod has cost only $24 and my time. I will post again in 2 days.

If any others familiar with the AE tool and it's tests have any options on parameters or tests let me know, but I still do not see anything so bad it would cause this problem.
 
#7 ·
Still trying to get rid of fuel to drop the tank. I tried hooking up the AE again and noted something different. With a new K&N Filter in the miss is much stronger between 1400 and 1700 RPM. I still hear a soft miss at idle and at high RPM but in the short range noted it is like a swift kick to the shin.

Anyone know what is happening with the ecm or anyother computers at this range? If it were a gasser with an old carb on it this is where the idle circuit changes to high RPM circuit.
 
#8 ·
I ended up putting a fuel gauge on mine at the bowl, when first started i was getting 50 psi. As i drove around the neighborhood it droped down as low as 30. i proceeded to put it on the highway at 55 mph i was below 5 psi. dropped the tank and to my surprise it was very clean. I blew all my lines out and am currently putting it back together. I think I am looking at replacing the supply pump.
 
#10 ·
Well weather and age has blessed me with a day under the hood. I cleaned out the valley of all the old oil. I pulled the left valve cover and inspected all the wires. So far everything is just dirty and oily. I pulled all the cooler tubes and am cleaning them up too checking all the sleeves for damage. Everything on the sleeves was real tight and sealed well. The wye pipe in the middle was gross so I pulled it all the way out so I can clean it up and some of the wiring too. I will resolder the EBPV mod so it is real neat and clean and add some wire wraps to bundle and protect the wires. If the afternoon goes well I will have the right valve cover off too.

I looked real close for the oil flow on the injectors. All I coulc find was this bad video to compare with. . The info is great and the video informative but the oil flow is hard to see. I have a real steady flow equal on all injectors. So I figure either all 4 were bad or they were more likely good. I will try to post some photos later depending on how well I do today.

I am finding some loose wires from add ons like Exh Temp and the brake mod. Better solder should fix them. Could the brake mod have caused the miss?? The main bundle looks real clean and tight with no rubbing or chafing.
 
#12 ·
Well late Sunday night I got it fired up with no change.

I found several splices in different wires all crimped and bad. I resoldered all wires and wrapped them properly. I added some extra loom protection to avoid rubbing. I inspected the intake and turbo. WOW the impellar has a couple bent fins. Nothing real bad but I wonder. I will probably go to LA and buy an upgraded impellar set and let them balance the assembly. A little extra boost couldn't hurt after I find out why the engine still misses.

Starting from the beginning;
Went for the recall on CPS ( I hate Dealerships) motor started to run bad and stall out regularly. I bought 2 new CPS units from NAPA. They are greyish Black?? I cannot find anything close to black but they offered to paint mine for me. Industries answer to our investigations... so they like black cps units we will make all of them black.

Stall fixed with new CPS but a miss showed up. Intermittent but no regular codes or single cylinder misfiring. Occasionly there is a knock as well. Nothing can be repeated nor is it patterned like a bad spark plug. All cylinders fire and I cannot find any one individual cylinder that misses always. Infared temp is same on all exhaust tubes.

Bought the AE scanner. All scans looked normal but on the low side. (See above for the results) Due to winter the drive tests included 1500 puonds in the bed for the snow and ice. I have a short loop to drive that includes a hill at 12%grade for 1/4 mile. I can go up and coast down with Exh Brakes. This seems to be a great test course for the cars I work on. No unusual results that I have seen yet. Fuel pressure at the bowl is 60 psi always.

Still new to the AE tester and what to monitor. Woodnthings gave great insight to some tests. All those tests I have run are all within parameters posted.

Tried to drain fuel tank but there was too much fuel. I will try to pull the bed next as this is rather easy with my cherry picker. 8 bolts, couple of wires to unplug, 2x4 across the bed and hook up the engine hoist. Bed is off in 45 minutes top, maybe 2 hours with the snow and ice. I want to do the hutch mod and vent mods anyways. I have the parts so I might as well do it while thinking what might be the problem.

I want to try unplugging the ICR/ ICP to see if the miss goes away. Even tho the test show it is good I found the wires on the right pulled out with no effort even tho they tested good. Both harnesses replaced for good measure.

Lessons learned so far;
electrical tests are not perfect. Look touch feel smell taste if needed. Verify everything.

What is easy for a 20 year old is not so easy for a 50 year old. The right valve cover bolts are real hard to reach and touch. you will get cut up trying to get both arms in there.

clean motors show more problems. Crimp connectors are worthless if they cannot be seen. Remove parts if needed and solder all wires.

oil kills rubber. Clean all connection on the cooler pipes top and bottom while they are out. Don't let sitting oil harden and rot the connectors.

Clean the valley out. I found a quarter and a nickle. Last owner probably did not read the posts on the quarter fix right and put the coins on the wrong side of the harness. Also found screws, wire ends, broken clamps oil fuel sludge and a small family of squirrels (not). The valley is really big and deep. Keep it clean.

Wire harness was easier to install if I lifted up as I plugged in the injector wires. The left rear glow plug can't be seen, felt or touched. It took 20 minutes of contortion to get the wire plugged in. Not looking forward to that ever again.

Hope this helps out someone as so far it is not helping me at all. Very confused on this intermittent missing/knock.
 
#13 ·
never saw this thread. I am not even close to an expert on these things but I will try and throw an idea or 2 out there.

can the AE do a contribution test? If so, this might point you toward the correct cyl.

as far as i know, a knock can be a faulty injector causing that noise.

in the first post you noted some readings, I thought the icp should be higher that 1700 at wot. hope someone can shed some light on this.
if so this could be a icp sensor problem or a hpop problem.

well if none of this helps out at least you got a bump!
:bump:
 
#14 ·
Thanks for input. I can get ICP as high as 2900 but it runs so rough I cannot hold the fuel pressure longenough for the AE to record it high. I have the same problem with recording any one cylinder missing. The fault is so irradict I do not think it is the same cylinder 2 times in a row.

Just an update before the snowfall this week I finished the Hutch Mod and the truck died in the driveway. I may have stumbled onto something here. I have zero fuel pressure now and the truck will not start. This I can solve. After finding the fuel problem I may also find the problem causing the miss too. Just nee the temps to get a little higher, preferably the 70's but I can deal with high 40's too. Next post after finding the fuel problem.
 
#15 ·
Pump will not pull even if I hook a hose up and stick it in a bucket with fuel..............I think we have a winner. NAPA will have my pump later today. At 145 it is not cheap but better than 2500 for anything the shop had to sell before changing the fuel pump.
 
#16 ·
Well the saga continues. New pump gives great pressure so well the gasket on the filter blew out. I see no lip to hold it so I am not sure how it stays in? Tomorrow I will pull ICP and ICR after that I will have to go to a repair shop. I am completely out of ideas and have replaced all the inexpensive parts. I would just buy an ICM and HPOP but my luck neither would fix the miss.

On the good side the idle sounds much better with the Hutch Mod but it still has that miss. For those doing the Hutch Mod I found leaving the rear bed bolts in and tipping the bed with a cherry picker the easiest way to gain access. Real clean and plenty of hammer room to remove the big nut on the sending unit. The tool to remove the hoses cost 10 bucks at NAPA so save the money on new hoses and don't cut the old ones off. Easy on easy off.
 
#17 ·
hows it going

I am new member to site and currently accessing from phone so posts
HTML:
will be short. I too am experienceing similar problems, mainly runs like crap below 1800 rpm.I have an 04 6.0, what year is yours? I too don't want to spend a lot, spent$7000 last year on oil cooler, egr cooler, head gasket, dealer recently diagnosed bad ficm and miss on #5, quoted $2000 for repair. Was thinking about purchasing ae scanner, is it a good investment? Also was thinking about trying hotshots secret for the injectors, has any one used? Site said 86% success rate. Any input is greatly appreciated.
 
#18 ·
Lots of reading on these beasts. Similar symptoms rarley are similar problems. YES an AE scanner would be a great help if it is in the budget. Without a scanner to show your motors parameters it is like saying I am like an Irishman too I have red hair??? So much more inside to point in the right direction. Find a scanner or ask the shop next time to print out the results for a Peer Review, ( that is us here on the forum.) For them to say it is a FICM there must be something that pointed it to them other than, " My bro at the pub had that and it was the do thingy-ma-bob. Cost him nearly $2000." When you get the info start a new thread so we can look at your truck.

My truck is a 99 f350 DRW 6 spd.
 
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