Run your Powerstroke on coal...well sorta

[Badfish740]

I just read an op-ed piece about how the Governor of Montana is pushing this pretty heavily. Basically you can make clean burning diesel from coal. The Nazis used it to produce fuel until they were able to take control of Romania's oilfields and South Africa used it (and still does) during Aparthied because most of the world would not sell them oil. Apparently Governor Rendell is big on the process too (for obvious reasons) and there's already a plant operating outside of Philadelphia. There's still some stuff to work out like what to do with all the carbon dioxide produced in the process, but there are ways of doing it.

The Fischer-Tropsch Process

I'd rather buy diesel made from good 'ol American coal mined by an American worker than another drop of Saudi oil. The same goes for soybean biodiesel and corn/switchgrass ethanol.

[shu873]

Originally Posted by Badfish740

I'd rather buy diesel made from good 'ol American coal mined by an American worker than another drop of Saudi oil. The same goes for soybean biodiesel and corn/switchgrass ethanol.

I hear ya there buddy. If its all the same, I'd rather give my money to the American miner, farmer, etc... If somebody's going to get rich because I like to drive the heck out of my truck, at least it would be my fellow countrymen and not some prince in a far away desert!

[kefier2001]

VERY TRUE!!!!!

[Ditty]

Rudolph Diesel's original diesel motor ran on coal...

"The engine was fueled by powdered coal injected with compressed air."
(From Wikipedia)

[mschn99]

Originally Posted by Ditty

Rudolph Diesel's original diesel motor ran on coal...

"The engine was fueled by powdered coal injected with compressed air."
(From Wikipedia)

that motor also blew up almost immediately after starting it

Its an interesting process...problem is it isnt actually very cost effective....and the fact that Brian Switzer is behind it makes me not like it too

[lilredpowerstroke]

Originally Posted by Ditty

Rudolph Diesel's original diesel motor ran on coal...

"The engine was fueled by powdered coal injected with compressed air."
(From Wikipedia)

The one that did run was on peanut oil.

[Patrick]

I dont care who runs what in there truck, but I wont change from diesel till Ford tells me they will still support my warranty after altering the fuel system. I am all for cheaper fuel, I dont care if it comes from coal, pig poop, whatever, but if i loose my warranty have I gained anything?

[Badfish740]

Originally Posted by DiscountPowerParts

I dont care who runs what in there truck, but I wont change from diesel till Ford tells me they will still support my warranty after altering the fuel system. I am all for cheaper fuel, I dont care if it comes from coal, pig poop, whatever, but if i loose my warranty have I gained anything?

That's a problem, plain and simple, but it has more to do with the fact that Ford's executives play golf with ExxonMobil's executives, and their lobbyists play cards together. If Joe Blow can make biodiesel in his backyard using an old hot water heater, hell, if a guy can run straight vegetable oil with a conversion kit with no ill effects whatsoever, why would high quality biodiesel from a state of the art facility like the ones they have in the midwest damage an engine? Why would diesel fuel made from coal damage an engine if various countries (who have way more diesel vehicles than we do) have been doing it for years? I can't blame someone for not wanting to void the warranty on a $40K truck, but if we change enough minds and take the common sense approach of developing standards for fuels there should be no problem. Diesel fuel and gasoline have to meet certain standards when they come from the refinery-why not biofuels?

Originally Posted by Marc

that motor also blew up almost immediately after starting it

This is pretty different-it involves liquifying coal into actually diesel fuel. I'm not suggesting anyone blow coal dust into their engine

Originally Posted by Marc

Its an interesting process...problem is it isnt actually very cost effective....and the fact that Brian Switzer is behind it makes me not like it too

The article does mention high capital and operating costs, but if Sasol, the South African company which produces most of the country's diesel fuel, is doing it AND turning a profit, why can't we? Hell, Shell (yes the oil company Shell) is already using the technology in Malaysia and has been for a while. With Brunei (The second largest producer of liquified natural gas as well as a healthy oil producer) in close proximity along with Australia, if the process wasn't profitable why would they use it?

I've been following alternative energy sources for a while (as a hobby and as part of my job) and the only reason that we don't grow acres and acres of soybeans and corn for fuel and mine coal to be turned into diesel fuel is because people just say "naaaaahhhh...I'll pass," with no real reason other than they're "comfortable" with oil. Why turn your nose up at coal liquification just because its supported by a certain governor-Ed Rendell supports it too, he's a decent honest guy?

Its just strange to me that we've drawn lines in this country along which one group supports weaning America off foreign oil by simply drilling for more here and hoping that it lasts, while the other advocates finding energy from many different sources. Would it be all that bad to just compromise and do both? Its amazing that you can get absolutely nowhere by promoting an energy economy where American farmers and miners get a piece of the pie-a piece that they beepbeepbeepbeep well deserve. So in short, instead of looking at who's supporting a particular technology or idea, how about just looking at the idea?

I don't know about you but I really really hope that one day the U.S. can look the Middle East in the eye and say "we don't need you anymore." I don't want my kids to be at the mercy of the Saudi royal family at the gas (*ahem* diesel) pump. Our diplomatic relations with basically every Middle Eastern country are completely FUBAR because no matter what they know they have us by the big hairy ones because they have the power to make people wait in 3 mile long lines for gas at a rediculous price. No self sufficient world power should have that hanging over their head. Would you really want to live in a world where the U.S. isn't number one anymore? I wouldn't. Sorry for the soapbox rant, but I just feel pretty passionately about this stuff and I'm just begging people to look at the issues, not the party lines. My last thought? Buy a farmer a new tractor or a miner a new Powerstroke instead of buying a Sheik a new Bentley.

[off]

...although you guys seem like a nice enough group...

---

Last edited by Badfish740 : 01-13-2007 at 03:48 AM.

[straycat]

Well said Badfish.

[mschn99]

Originally Posted by Badfish740

That's a problem, plain and simple, but it has more to do with the fact that Ford's executives play golf with ExxonMobil's executives, and their lobbyists play cards together. If Joe Blow can make biodiesel in his backyard using an old hot water heater, hell, if a guy can run straight vegetable oil with a conversion kit with no ill effects whatsoever, why would high quality biodiesel from a state of the art facility like the ones they have in the midwest damage an engine? Why would diesel fuel made from coal damage an engine if various countries (who have way more diesel vehicles than we do) have been doing it for years? I can't blame someone for not wanting to void the warranty on a $40K truck, but if we change enough minds and take the common sense approach of developing standards for fuels there should be no problem. Diesel fuel and gasoline have to meet certain standards when they come from the refinery-why not biofuels?


This is pretty different-it involves liquifying coal into actually diesel fuel. I'm not suggesting anyone blow coal dust into their engine



The article does mention high capital and operating costs, but if Sasol, the South African company which produces most of the country's diesel fuel, is doing it AND turning a profit, why can't we? Hell, Shell (yes the oil company Shell) is already using the technology in Malaysia and has been for a while. With Brunei (The second largest producer of liquified natural gas as well as a healthy oil producer) in close proximity along with Australia, if the process wasn't profitable why would they use it?

I've been following alternative energy sources for a while (as a hobby and as part of my job) and the only reason that we don't grow acres and acres of soybeans and corn for fuel and mine coal to be turned into diesel fuel is because people just say "naaaaahhhh...I'll pass," with no real reason other than they're "comfortable" with oil. Why turn your nose up at coal liquification just because its supported by a certain governor-Ed Rendell supports it too, he's a decent honest guy?

Its just strange to me that we've drawn lines in this country along which one group supports weaning America off foreign oil by simply drilling for more here and hoping that it lasts, while the other advocates finding energy from many different sources. Would it be all that bad to just compromise and do both? Its amazing that you can get absolutely nowhere by promoting an energy economy where American farmers and miners get a piece of the pie-a piece that they beepbeepbeepbeep well deserve. So in short, instead of looking at who's supporting a particular technology or idea, how about just looking at the idea?

I don't know about you but I really really hope that one day the U.S. can look the Middle East in the eye and say "we don't need you anymore." I don't want my kids to be at the mercy of the Saudi royal family at the gas (*ahem* diesel) pump. Our diplomatic relations with basically every Middle Eastern country are completely FUBAR because no matter what they know they have us by the big hairy ones because they have the power to make people wait in 3 mile long lines for gas at a rediculous price. No self sufficient world power should have that hanging over their head. Would you really want to live in a world where the U.S. isn't number one anymore? I wouldn't. Sorry for the soapbox rant, but I just feel pretty passionately about this stuff and I'm just begging people to look at the issues, not the party lines. My last thought? Buy a farmer a new tractor or a miner a new Powerstroke instead of buying a Sheik a new Bentley.

[off]

...although you guys seem like a nice enough group...

first of all the govoner joke was nothing more than that!! I am a montana native and i was just making fun of one of the elected officials there....not making a political statement.

Secondly....i agree with getting off of forieng oil and becoming self sufficient.....but coal is NOT the answer. Neither is drilling more domestic oil, although i feel we should drill much more domestic oil for the short term to expedite the process of getting ourselves off of foreign oil. The answer isnt in mining because first of all....why deal with a bunch of crooked, unionized mines. Before anyone goes off on that i want to you to do a little research on my hometown of Butte, MT. Dont even thing about going off on me for that comment because i know all about it. That is one of the most heavily mined and unionized towns on the country and it is proof that the mining industry isnt the answer. Plus.....coal will run out...just like oil eventually.

The answer is simple. Its in the farming industry. Farmers grow soybeans.....soybeans can be made into cooking oil, diesel fuel, vegi stuff that i dont eat and all kinds of other things. The farmers get to grow the soybeans, the refining process is similar enough to regular diesel to at least be able to convert the old refineries to make the bio, and there you go......RENEWABLE, cleaner fuel. thats my