Veggie Rookie

[Clay Henry]

No it's not that simple. Using the stock tank for vegi oil - you said bio and thats al together diferent - is a no-no. And heres why. certain metals, like steal, are known to react with vegi oil, free faty acids, moisture, heat and air (all of which are present in a tank of VO) creating a skin like crud (i call it friut rool ups) in the tank when using metal tanks. These fruit rool ups will grow in your tank (literally grow) and eventually let loose and then it's filter city. Don't want to do this. Aluminum does not have this same reaction with those elements so an aluminum tank is ideal. Copper has the same reaction so don't use a copper heat exchanger inside the tank for a heated fuel pickup line. For the PSD, the best and simplest system for converting your truck to use vegi oil is the "vegistroke" kit. Click that link and you can check it out. You can buy this kit, and an aluminum tank (plastic wil work too but not recommended because of the heat) and install this system and within a year, it has paid for itself and your makin money. I have one and like it very well. If you have good oil sorces, figure out an easy collection system and go.
Good luck and ask more questions if you have them.

[ProGunProgressive]

CHenry makes some good points about vegi-oil conversions, the thing that attracts me most about them is not having to worry much about the free fatty acid content of the WVO.

But he overstates the dangers and difficulties of making your own bio.

Yes methanol and methoxide are dangerous, but he makes it sound like if you get a whiff of it you'll drop dead (I dunno if he's selling something, but I've noticed that people selling competing technologies tend to overstate the biodiesel threats--not an attack, just an observation). He's overstating the danger quite a bit. If you use proper precautions with lye or KOH and methanol (ventilation, gloves, etc) your risk is fairly minimal and easily contained. People have been powering race cars for decades with methanol. Lye has been in your home for more than decades (you call it drain cleaner). It ain't plutonium folks, the idea that, as he put it, "one mistake WILL KILL you", is a bit melodramatic. Just use common sense, safety gear, and work in a well ventilated area, and the rest takes care of itself.

Sure you should keep it away from kids, just as you keep the liquor cabinet, the gun collection, and the dirty movies away from kids. And no you shouldn't get a load on while doing it, but having a beer or two while you work isn't all that hazardous.

Also, the time committment isn't all that bad. Collecting the oil is the worst part, and you have to do that anyway if you're running WVO. Once you get a system down, it's not too bad. But it's not for everyone either. I have the luxury of working from home, which helps. Once your processor is wired and running well, it'll calm down effort wise.

The other nice thing about bio is yes, you can go application to application. I sold some spare bio to another diesel enthusiast. Can't do that with veggie.

Ideally, the best solution cost and environmentally would be to do both. Use the bio to get the truck up to temp for the WVO.

[Tx_Atty]

For a 97, if you run B100, you will have to replace your fuel return lines. The stocks are rubber and will melt over about 2 months. I replaced mine with teflon/SS braid - both lines totalled $27 but installation was another $150. I had to have someone else do it because of lack of time and proper tools. If you can do it, then you are only looking at a few bucks.

Running B20 you will not likely have to do this for a very, very long time although you should remove the plastic covers and keep an eye on them. B20 will also take much longer to clean your tank and lines. I ran B100 and never had a filter clog. It will just depend on the condition of your system when you start. It would be a good idea to have a spare with you regardless.

Other than the lines I never had a problem. My only problem now is supply. Once you go bio, you wont go back.

[Clay Henry]

Originally Posted by ProGunProgressive

CHenry makes some good points about vegi-oil conversions, the thing that attracts me most about them is not having to worry much about the free fatty acid content of the WVO.

But he overstates the dangers and difficulties of making your own bio.

Yes methanol and methoxide are dangerous, but he makes it sound like if you get a whiff of it you'll drop dead (I dunno if he's selling something, but I've noticed that people selling competing technologies tend to overstate the biodiesel threats--not an attack, just an observation). He's overstating the danger quite a bit. If you use proper precautions with lye or KOH and methanol (ventilation, gloves, etc) your risk is fairly minimal and easily contained. People have been powering race cars for decades with methanol. Lye has been in your home for more than decades (you call it drain cleaner). It ain't plutonium folks, the idea that, as he put it, "one mistake WILL KILL you", is a bit melodramatic. Just use common sense, safety gear, and work in a well ventilated area, and the rest takes care of itself.

Sure you should keep it away from kids, just as you keep the liquor cabinet, the gun collection, and the dirty movies away from kids. And no you shouldn't get a load on while doing it, but having a beer or two while you work isn't all that hazardous.

Also, the time committment isn't all that bad. Collecting the oil is the worst part, and you have to do that anyway if you're running WVO. Once you get a system down, it's not too bad. But it's not for everyone either. I have the luxury of working from home, which helps. Once your processor is wired and running well, it'll calm down effort wise.

The other nice thing about bio is yes, you can go application to application. I sold some spare bio to another diesel enthusiast. Can't do that with veggie.

Ideally, the best solution cost and environmentally would be to do both. Use the bio to get the truck up to temp for the WVO.

I didn't over state anything. I stated fact about Meth I dare not get involved with it as I am accident prone myself. Accident prone people should avoid work involving deadly elements. And it IS deadly. So are airplanes and I don't ride those unless i have to either. I know, I have a better chance at getting killed in traffic on the road than in a plane wreck, but if my PSD fails, i will not drop 30,000 feet out of the sky!

Quoted directly from "Journey to Forever"
"Wear proper protective gloves, apron, and eye protection and do not inhale any vapours. Methanol can cause blindness and death, and you don't even have to drink it, it's absorbed through the skin. Sodium hydroxide can cause severe burns and death. Together these two chemicals form sodium methoxide. This is an extremely caustic chemical.
These are dangerous chemicals -- treat them as such! Gloves should be chemical-proof with cuffs that can be pulled up over long sleeves -- no shorts or sandals. Always have running water handy when working with them. The workspace must be thoroughly ventilated. No children or pets allowed.

Organic vapor cartridge respirators are more or less useless against methanol vapors. Professional advice is not to use organic vapor cartridges for longer than a few hours maximum, or not to use them at all. Only a supplied-air system will do (SCBA -- Self-Contained Breathing Apparatus).

The best advice is not to expose yourself to the fumes in the first place. The main danger is when the methanol is hot -- when it's cold or at "room temperature" it fumes very little if at all and it's easily avoided, just keep it at arm's length whenever you open the container. Don't use "open" reactors -- biodiesel processors should be closed to the atmosphere, with no fumes escaping. All methanol containers should be kept tightly closed anyway to prevent water absorption from the air.

We transfer methanol from its container to the methoxide mixing container by pumping it, with no exposure. This is easily arranged, and an ordinary small aquarium air-pump will do. The methoxide is mixed like this -- Methoxide the easy way, which also happens to be the safe way. The mixture gets quite hot at first, but the container is kept closed and no fumes escape. When mixed, the methoxide is again pumped into the (closed) biodiesel processor with the aquarium air-pump -- there's no exposure to fumes, and it's added slowly, which is optimal for the process and also for safety. See Adding the methoxide."

With my WVO, I can sniff it, I can drink it, and if i feel like itm i can bath nekid in it....and not worry about any of these dangers.....Point made. It's simply not for me. It may be for you though.

[volsfan411]

I am new here and have found a lot of great help and Ideas here and I have a question about bio-d and veggie. Do you have to start the motor with the real stuff then switch over with both systems or is that just for veggie. Also do you use used oil for both systhems or un-used for the veggie system because around here clean veg oil at the store is double what fule is.

Thanks,
Brian

[Clay Henry]

Originally Posted by volsfan411

I am new here and have found a lot of great help and Ideas here and I have a question about bio-d and veggie. Do you have to start the motor with the real stuff then switch over with both systems or is that just for veggie. Also do you use used oil for both systhems or un-used for the veggie system because around here clean veg oil at the store is double what fule is.

Thanks,
Brian

When burning vegi oil straight, you have to start the engine on diesel, let the engine heat up to full operating temp and then switch over to the vegi. When using Bio diesel, you do not have to do this. You can start up on bio-D and drive.
Check into this website for all kinds of vegi oil info.

[volsfan411]

So from what I have been reading is I can use WVO for both systems. Bio_D I would have to filter it, heat it, mix it with Lye and methanol, drain it, wash it, wash it, wash it, and wash it again before it can be used but with straight WVO all I would need is a kit and filter it once the I am good to go? The straight seems Alot less time. Any power difference between one or the other?
Brian

[Dave]

I would love to do this reason 1 there are 3 restaraunts here in town that would be happy to give up their used vegi oil for free rather than pay a garbage company and reason two it sounds like a big money saver. but what i wanna know clay is do you notice a power difference

[Clay Henry]

Originally Posted by volsfan411

So from what I have been reading is I can use WVO for both systems. Bio_D I would have to filter it, heat it, mix it with Lye and methanol, drain it, wash it, wash it, wash it, and wash it again before it can be used but with straight WVO all I would need is a kit and filter it once the I am good to go? The straight seems Alot less time. Any power difference between one or the other?
Brian

Correct, Bio is a pain in the butt although you can put it in any diesel that you may own without having to worry about a converted fuel system. Straight vegi oil has to be properly dewatered and filtered but it is way easier than making bio-D If you have a PSD, then you also have an excelent motor to convert using the vegistroke system like i have. Vegistroke is designed specifically to go on a PSD.

Originally Posted by quadracer1014

I would love to do this reason 1 there are 3 restaraunts here in town that would be happy to give up their used vegi oil for free rather than pay a garbage company and reason two it sounds like a big money saver. but what i wanna know clay is do you notice a power difference

If you already have 3 resturants willint to give youi oil then you already have one of the hard parts done! Securing collection places can be a pain but it your case it sounds like it would be a sinch!
I notice NO power loss when burning vegi oil. You can not tell the difference in the way the engine performs!
Check into the Vegistroke set up...click the link in my signature and read about it.
Big money, yes, in about an hour, i'm headed over to meet okstroker from here on the forum who just bought a Vegistroke and I have been talking with him on the phone and helping answer his questions. I am going over to help him do his install. The thing about this guy is he's a hotshot runner and he uses 4000 dollars a month in fuel. Hes found a way to collect on the road and filter it so he can totally use vegi oil when he runs to Canada and back. Now, 4000 dollars a month comes to $48,000.oo a year in fuel cost. If he can even cut that in half by running vegi oil, then he has pocketed $24k a year. And i say cut in half because he may have a time finding and collecting that much oil while hes trying to make good time too. He assentially may end up just hauling some extra barrels with him so he may have enough oil to get him to cannada but have to use some diesel coming back. he still will pocket big money.

[power-stroker]

I'v been making and running bio since april. I make it in 5gal buckets. It cost me about 40c a gal to make. I get the oil hot from 2 resturants that I frequent. They call me when they are ready to change the cooker and I show up with a bucket. Most friers only hold 4 gal, so a 5gal pail works fine. I have to let it cool a while because of the low boiling point of menthol. (I found that out the hard way.LOL) I screen it, make it, then run it through a 10 micron filter into my tank the next morning. I have run as high as 50% with no problems. There are several recipies that are available. The recipie I use has reduced lye so no need to wash it. I also run it in my wife's Liberty with no problems. Jeep's new diesel comes with 10% from the factory. I am only running 10% now because of the winter here. It makes me nervious with a higher amount. I am actually making more now than I can use. The whole prosses takes about 15min. Since it has got colder here, I include Amsoil's cold-flo to my tank along with their fuel modifier. So far-So good.