A critical review of alternative diesle fuels - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 205 Old 11-04-2012, 08:38 AM Thread Starter
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A critical review of alternative diesle fuels

Quote:
Originally Posted by vegginpsd View Post
...I have converted more 7.3's and VW PD's and ALH engine cars that I can count, without a couple volunteers without their shoes off. I even did a Duramax.

My longrime Girlfriend and I have two 7.3 F350's, two TDI Jettas and and a 7.3 Excursion.
I have made and burned thousands of gallons of B100. I burn B100 year around (several weeks a year are BELOW 0*F here......)

Owned and operated a gravity CF before most even knew what WVO was. It has cleaned tens of thousands of gallons of WVO.
I have burned, heated, cleaned and otherwise handled a small ocean of oil in the past 6 plus years. I have proudly donated more oil to a member serviceman on this forum for FREE than many have burned so that he can travel cross country to see his family.....

Been there, done that.

If you want to learn why I dont run WVO anymore, run a bore scope down the glow plug hole of a truck with over 10,000 gallons of 160*F oil consumed by it. Not pretty. Despite what some may want to say, it aint caused by insufficient purges or low temps......it simply does not all combust IMHO. Thats why I quit. B100 has so many advantages, I will not burn WVO ever again.

One might think my the theories and insight gained came from reading posts on the web.......nope. Most of it came from DOING.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegginpsd View Post
As I stated earlier, a PSD WILL run on pretty much any fluid you can manage to get thru the pump at a pressure higher than 56 PSI, but how long it will do it for, that is the $10,000 question.
Thank-you vegginpsd for expressing your findings regarding burning alternative fuels for 6 years. I have been researching alternative diesel fuels for about 7 years and doing it for almost 6 years, like yourself. The thing I found was there was a lot of hyp in the alternative fuels world that I had to get through to solve the problems I was encountering.

So, my intention is not to turn this into a mud fight between Biodiesel verses SVO verses Blender camps, but an opportunity to understand the problems of burning alternative diesel fuels, so that solutions can be worked out.

One of the things I have recently noticed about my engine is I have sludge forming around my valve lifters, etc. and all inside my valve covers. I believe that problem is excessive blow-by, due to coked cylinders, due to WMO experiments, and the WVO portion of my fuel is blending with the crankcase oil, and forming the black sludge that is sticking to my valve lifters, rocker arm, etc.

From being a member of most of the alternative diesel fuels forums at one time or another, I have seen the occasional report of this crud, and I believe the problem is people who are burning vegetable oil-based fuels should be lubricating their engines with vegetable oil, not mineral-based motor oil. What do you think?
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post #2 of 205 Old 11-04-2012, 10:30 AM
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I have also seen what you are describing, and in addition noticed on the push rod guides.

I have seen numerous push rod failures on VO powered PSD's.

MY 99 with 160K miles of veg fueling does not perform as it should with the extensive mods, and has noticable CCV gasses, more than it should.

The above is why I abandoned ship on WVO/SVO/WCO, etc in favor on B100.

I too have no desire to start a pissing match, I just wanted to report my findings, as you quoted above.

99 F350 7.3
320K w/ 150k+ on Biofuels

Casserly Stage 2's-TE Modded 17 HPOP
DP Tuner F6 & PMT1-Van Turbo Non EBPV & 6637
Twin Fass Pumps B100 & D2 Regulated Return- Fuel Lab
Isspro Pyro, Trans, Boost-Air and Fuel Temp
WVO processed by Simple Centrifuge
B100 by Biopro 190
B100 powered Excursion, F250 CCSB, and Two TDI Jettas
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post #3 of 205 Old 11-05-2012, 05:21 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vegginpsd View Post
I have also seen what you are describing, and in addition noticed on the push rod guides.

I have seen numerous push rod failures on VO powered PSD's.

MY 99 with 160K miles of veg fueling does not perform as it should with the extensive mods, and has noticable CCV gasses, more than it should.

The above is why I abandoned ship on WVO/SVO/WCO, etc in favor on B100.

I too have no desire to start a pissing match, I just wanted to report my findings, as you quoted above.
Well, it is good to read an honest report, and not have it turn into a major battle.

I have heard from others that WMO can blend with biodiesel and not produce the black crud, but my last blend was WMO, gasoline and biodiesel and I got lots of black crud, but then I have only run that blend once.

Since the black crud became an occasional feature of my blending experiments I now settle my blends for at least a week after making the blend to make sure there is no precipitate.

Just out of curiosity, you mentioned you have had your biodiesel remain liquid down to 0F. My blends regularly see 0F with no gelling, but I am on a UK biodiesel forum, where they have major problems if the thermometer even gets close to 32F, so how do you keep your biodiesel liquid in the cold?
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post #4 of 205 Old 11-05-2012, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beyondbiodiesel View Post
Well, it is good to read an honest report, and not have it turn into a major battle.

I have heard from others that WMO can blend with biodiesel and not produce the black crud, but my last blend was WMO, gasoline and biodiesel and I got lots of black crud, but then I have only run that blend once. Any vegetable based fuel combined with WMO makes jello.
Since the black crud became an occasional feature of my blending experiments I now settle my blends for at least a week after making the blend to make sure there is no precipitate.

Just out of curiosity, you mentioned you have had your biodiesel remain liquid down to 0F. My blends regularly see 0F with no gelling, but I am on a UK biodiesel forum, where they have major problems if the thermometer even gets close to 32F, so how do you keep your biodiesel liquid in the cold? HEAT




See above.

99 F350 7.3
320K w/ 150k+ on Biofuels

Casserly Stage 2's-TE Modded 17 HPOP
DP Tuner F6 & PMT1-Van Turbo Non EBPV & 6637
Twin Fass Pumps B100 & D2 Regulated Return- Fuel Lab
Isspro Pyro, Trans, Boost-Air and Fuel Temp
WVO processed by Simple Centrifuge
B100 by Biopro 190
B100 powered Excursion, F250 CCSB, and Two TDI Jettas

Last edited by vegginpsd; 11-05-2012 at 06:27 AM.
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post #5 of 205 Old 11-05-2012, 11:20 AM
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Let's see....

75,000 miles on vegetable oil in 4 years

Let's say 15 miles/gallon

That's 5,000 gallons

Multiplied by $4.00/gallon

That's $20,000. I paid $8,000 for the truck and $1,500 to convert it. It costs me 4 cents per gallon to filter it. $200.

Who cares if I blow it up?!?!?! I'll just buy another and do it again

2002 F-250, 289,000 miles, 89,000 on WVO; Greasecar conversion, 20 plate heat exchanger, AIH delete-water injection in its place, DIY fuel bowl delete, 6637 air filter w/cover, Straight Piped, GPR LED mod, CAT ELC, 203* thermostat, Bosch aux coolant pump, ext coolant filter, fumoto oil drain valve, Aeroforce Interceptor scan gauge, ISSPro trans temp, boost, EGT, elec fuel pressure gauges, Cyberdyne coolant, veg oil, ambient air temp gauges, 80W low beams/100W high beams. No grease problems.
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post #6 of 205 Old 11-05-2012, 12:38 PM
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Good theory, and I DO respect that.

However, not everybody has a $8k truck, or the $7k cash for a new longblock.

Therefore I dont cut any corners cleaning oil, or ever use any B100 that did not pass a 27/3 test or make recomendations not consistant with this.

It truly is amazing how the money you save on fuel just gets absorbed into other things!

99 F350 7.3
320K w/ 150k+ on Biofuels

Casserly Stage 2's-TE Modded 17 HPOP
DP Tuner F6 & PMT1-Van Turbo Non EBPV & 6637
Twin Fass Pumps B100 & D2 Regulated Return- Fuel Lab
Isspro Pyro, Trans, Boost-Air and Fuel Temp
WVO processed by Simple Centrifuge
B100 by Biopro 190
B100 powered Excursion, F250 CCSB, and Two TDI Jettas
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post #7 of 205 Old 11-05-2012, 12:57 PM
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I definitely don't cut any corners filtering and de-watering oil. I would be sad if my pet project died, but still considering how much I have saved PLUS, the extra oil that I barter, I am WAY WAY ahead!

2002 F-250, 289,000 miles, 89,000 on WVO; Greasecar conversion, 20 plate heat exchanger, AIH delete-water injection in its place, DIY fuel bowl delete, 6637 air filter w/cover, Straight Piped, GPR LED mod, CAT ELC, 203* thermostat, Bosch aux coolant pump, ext coolant filter, fumoto oil drain valve, Aeroforce Interceptor scan gauge, ISSPro trans temp, boost, EGT, elec fuel pressure gauges, Cyberdyne coolant, veg oil, ambient air temp gauges, 80W low beams/100W high beams. No grease problems.
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post #8 of 205 Old 11-07-2012, 06:15 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vegginpsd View Post
Any vegetable based fuel combined with WMO makes jello.
I found it is really not as simple as that. I have found most (but not all) of the WMO I blend with WVO produces a black, thick, glue-like sediment at the bottom of my settling tanks, but the sediment is only 10% of the blend, and once the glue has been settled out, then I have a blend that is translucent and it burns a lot cleaner than just filtered and CFed WMO.

Some of my WMO+WVO blends produced no black sediment. That WMO happened to be translucent already, because it had not been burned in the crankcase. So, if your source of WMO comes from people who drain the engine oil frequently, then you may not get any sediment at all, when blending it with WVO.

This suggests that those people who are running WVO-based alternative diesel fuels simply changed their engine oil frequently, then they would not get crud accumulating in their engine from blow-by.
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post #9 of 205 Old 11-14-2012, 03:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vegginpsd View Post
Good theory, and I DO respect that.

However, not everybody has a $8k truck, or the $7k cash for a new longblock.

Therefore I dont cut any corners cleaning oil, or ever use any B100 that did not pass a 27/3 test or make recomendations not consistant with this.

It truly is amazing how the money you save on fuel just gets absorbed into other things!

What is the 27/3 test?

2002 F250 7.3 PSD
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post #10 of 205 Old 11-14-2012, 06:42 AM
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