Pre-Emission Question - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 11 Old 01-12-2009, 04:34 PM Thread Starter
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Pre-Emission Question

Been looking through Truck Paper for the last year or so. Not sure if any of you read it, but it's basically like Auto Hemmings but for big trucks. I was just wondering, what exactly is "Pre-Emission"? From what I can tell it's some sort of restriction that was passed around 2007, but I'm not sure what that change is?

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post #2 of 11 Old 01-12-2009, 04:44 PM
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02 was the start of the Acert (emission engines) I think.
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post #3 of 11 Old 01-12-2009, 04:46 PM
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As of 1 Jan 2007 all diesel vehicles were required to signifancatly reduce emissions output. This is when the 6.0 went away and the 6.4 came out with it's DPF. it is also when all stations selling road use diesel fuel were required to sell the "new" fuel that has 15 PPM sulfer instead of the previous 500 PPM.

A Pre Emissions vehicle is one made to the old standard. Witch has better performance and better mileage.

If I am wrong please correct me.

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post #4 of 11 Old 01-12-2009, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricksstang View Post
As of 1 Jan 2007 all diesel vehicles were required to signifancatly reduce emissions output. This is when the 6.0 went away and the 6.4 came out with it's DPF. it is also when all stations selling road use diesel fuel were required to sell the "new" fuel that has 15 PPM sulfer instead of the previous 500 PPM.

A Pre Emissions vehicle is one made to the old standard. Witch has better performance and better mileage.

If I am wrong please correct me.

Rick
Reread the topic he is asking about class 8 trucks
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post #5 of 11 Old 01-13-2009, 10:50 PM
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our new 30K reefer box trucks at work are 2008 International DuraStar's with the MaxxForce DT engine, which has a DPF. Our MPG's are terrible. The best is about an 8.2 if you really really try to get good mileage. Average is about a 7.2. The thing that is bad is in KC, we have Kenworths with Cummins engines and right now, doing the same thing their MPG's are easily into the 10's. Those do not have the emissions stuff like our DPF trucks. You'd think they could make it better but I guess it's one of those things that is relatively new to these companies and they have a learning curve like everything else.


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post #6 of 11 Old 01-14-2009, 05:17 PM
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Pre-Emissions


Not sure exactly what you mean, but I believe the "pre-emissions" term refers to diesel engines manufactured before January of 2007 that do not have the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter). The new EPA rules apply to all diesels, but I suspect that the emissions standards vary depending upon the weight & type of the vehicle.

These 'old' engines can run fine on low-sulfur diesel fuel (LSD) that has roughly 300 ppm, but the newer engines require ultra-low-sulfur diesel fuel (ULSD) that has only 15 ppm. The ULSD works in the older engines, but the LSD can screw up the newer ones. Fortunately, I doubt you can even find LSD anymore (except as off-road fuel) since ULSD is available virtually everywhere.

We have medium-duty and heavy-duty trucks (from 25k to 80k gross weight) of differing years, and the 2007 to 2009 Sterlings all have the DPF on their 6.7-liter and 8.3-liter Cummins engines. {We also have two '07 Sterling tractors that have a Mercedes-Benz engine rather than the Cummins, but I don't know whether or not they have the DPF like the Cummins-equipped straight trucks.}

The "new" 2007 to 2009 trucks with the Cummins & the DPF get awful mileage. The tandem-axle trucks get 6 miles per gallon on a good day, which is about the same as our tractor-trailers. I know that the DPF ignites at least twice a day - and it burns very hot and has a pungent odor. (This, obviously, requires more diesel to be burned than would normally be used to propel the truck without the extra emissions equipment.)

Basically, it burns off all the soot that is supposedly trapped in the exhaust system. Our trucks that have the DPF have what appears to be a fuel injector sticking out of the muffler/tailpipe assembly. The truck's computer tells it when to fire up and when to shut off. I hope it never ignites while I park on grass, as it is likely to start a fire!

Regarding the MaxxForce engine from International, I think that is the platform on which the 6.4L Powerstroke is based. We have some old Internationals that have the DT466 (six-cylinder), which was a very good engine. We had one truck with the DT530, and that was truly a beast!

The 6.0L Powerstroke used in Ford trucks was based on the Navistar DT365 and the 7.3L Powerstroke derived from Navistar's DT444e. Ford has purchased diesel engines from Navistar for many years now; much the same as Dodge sources their diesel from Cummins and GM/Chevy get the Duramax diesel from Isuzu.

This new emissions stuff is going to pose a challenge for the manufacturers, but it is nothing that cannot be overcome by experience, ingenuity and good old-fashioned trial & error.


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post #7 of 11 Old 01-14-2009, 05:42 PM
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yeah our MaxxForce engines are the newest version of the DT and it is the 466. It's rated at 245hp and 6XXlb/ft. I can remember the exact number on the torque, I wanna say its like 620lb/ft. All of the new International built motors are under the namesake MaxxForce. Our tractors we run are all pre-emmissions. They're Volvos with Cummins engines. Those are our local route trucks, we got a new International tractor. I haven't heard much about the MPGs from it, they're not too bad I believe, but I can't remember what engine is in it. One of our best MPG tractors we have for OTR is a Peterbilt 387 with a cummins ISX and super singles. Once again i can't remember the numbers, too much stuff in this head of mine


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post #8 of 11 Old 03-09-2009, 03:26 PM
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ok, so update, the ecm on our trucks (MaxxForce DT) reads anywhere from 7 to 8 mpg on average. We did manual fuel tests and it came out to be between 9.8 and 10.4 mpg. So, my boss talked to international and their answer was that they only guarantee something like 75% accuracy on the MPG reading? WTF?! That seems pretty skeet?


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To install still-AutoMeter 60psi boost gauge, AeroForce Interceptor scan gauge, Flo-Pro EGR delete with stainless elbow with custom welded 1/8 NPT bung, racor ccv4500



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post #9 of 11 Old 03-17-2009, 12:21 AM
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Holy crap! I'd be dancing in the street it I was getting 9.8 to 10.4 mpg. If I'm decently heavy and a good cross wind, I'm lucky to get 5. Its a 08 Volvo D11.

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post #10 of 11 Old 04-07-2009, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aljay View Post
Reread the topic he is asking about class 8 trucks
The laws changed for all on road diesels even class 8. All international, cummins, and cat engines now use a DPF. I cant say on all the other brands as I do not work on them. But I do know that they have to meet the same emmisions. I think Mack and Izuzu uses a urea injection system but I dont know if it takes the place of the DPF or just helps with it.

Certified International Tech unfortunatly specializing in the VT365(6.0 power stroke) engine. I'm here to help those people(as much as I can) that are lucky enough to have this in a light duty and not a medium duty truck.
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