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  #1  
Old 05-18-2013, 03:30 PM
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Hard to start, all the time - RESOLVED !

I could use some help diagnosing my hard start problem.

I originally had problems starting when cold, it seemed to start easier if I cycled the GP 2 times. I found the GP solonoid and observed that it did not give power out all the time when turning the keys on. I replaced it (I have a 2000 EX with 7.3 and it has the 99 style solonoid on the passenger side toward the middle front of the motor) and while removing it, the thing fell apart being so brittle. I thought that was fixed. I still had problems starting it. I posted in the GA thread for locals and was asked what my ICP and IPR readings were and here was what I found and posted...

OK, here is what I recorded...

I changed my digital gauges to ICP and ICR. Upon startup, I had nothing for ICP. The truck started right away, although I went through 2 cycles of the glow plugs to ensure I had the readings on the gauges and ready to read them. When Idling after start, I still had a 0 for ICP, but had 14.1 for IPR, then dropped every 3 to 4 seconds, 13.7, 13.3, then 12.5 after about 20 seconds.

When I put the truck in gear, I noticed ICP was displaying pressure. At idle it was averaging around 530PSI. I took the truck out for a spin and when traveling away from the neighborhood on a 35MPH road I was getting ICP average around 520PSI.

When I got to the main road and did a WOT, I saw 2900 plus a few on the ICP and around 45 to 50MPH, I saw 58% on the IPR and increased with speed and RPM.

I turned around and did another WOT and saw 2700PSI on ICP.

After I got home, I saw an average of 490PSI on the ICP at idle.

I do not know why the ICP was not registering at first. I will check it tomorrow afternoon hopefully to see if I can read something during cranking.


I went out last night to start the truck from sitting maybe 25 days. It did start after about 10 seconds of cranking. I let it idle for a minute and shut it off. I went to start again and it would not fire with 10 seconds of cranking. I cranked it again and after about 8 seconds - it lit off and smoked from too much fuel. I did not touch the pedal when starting.

I let the truck idle for about 20 minutes or so to full warm up. I shut it off, waited about 30 seconds and tried to start it again. It would not lite off with some 10 seconds of cranking. I just removed the key and shut it up for the night.


Any ideas or thoughts? All suggestions to check are greatly appreciated !


Thanks,
Mike

Last edited by beamer; 06-07-2013 at 05:53 AM.
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Old 05-19-2013, 06:28 PM
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Your idle numbers pretty well match mine. Warm idle is almost identical, and I notice similar higher numbers at cold idle.

Check your HPOP level after letting it sit over night. Try some Sea Foam right before your next oil change and see if that helps at all. Could just be nastiness up in there. From the numbers you gave, I'll say ICP and IPR are good, but I'll do a WOT run tomorrow and watch my numbers, then get back to you.
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Old 05-19-2013, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macon View Post
Your idle numbers pretty well match mine. Warm idle is almost identical, and I notice similar higher numbers at cold idle.

Check your HPOP level after letting it sit over night. Try some Sea Foam right before your next oil change and see if that helps at all. Could just be nastiness up in there. From the numbers you gave, I'll say ICP and IPR are good, but I'll do a WOT run tomorrow and watch my numbers, then get back to you.
What do you mean about trying seafoam?

In my fuel?

A strong portion verses the recommended usage?




Thanks,
Mike
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Old 05-19-2013, 07:54 PM
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In your oil. Assuming your numbers are good, your GP system works like it's supposed to, and you've kept up with your oil changes, I can only guess that you're having injector or HPOP issues causing the hard start. Since both options cost a bit, I figure Sea Foam in your oil, ~100 miles pre-oil change, may do you well. The 6.0 guys have good experience with RevX, but I don't know the consensus on the 7.3. Running something through the engine to clean up the internals is good every once in a while anyway.
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Old 05-19-2013, 08:21 PM
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Mike, I have been real busy!! Sorry about not getting you the sensors out yet. I have a laundry list of reasons why, but again I apologize. I have a video of my HPOP pressures I can post for you to watch. Then you can compare numbers. I would take Chris' advise and check your HPOP level before you try to crank it next time. See if you may have a problem with oil leaking out of your HPO tank.

Here is a video of my HPOP pressure doing a WOT run with a hot engine and set on a 25hp tune.

Please disregard the music! The phone has a better mic then I do ears. I was unaware of how loud it was.
HPOP bad? - YouTube
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Old 05-20-2013, 04:15 AM
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Rob,

I completely understand. We are all busy people these days. I don't remember when there was a day that I came home and had nothing to do.

Thanks for the video link. That looks like what I am getting, I believe. You are around 500 at idle and I would see almost 3K under WOT blasts.

A few weeks ago, I did check the bowl level and it was about 7/16" below the top. I will check again today and report back on here where the level is and how long it takes cranking to start.

Have either of you tried or heard of doing this... I am curious
Attached Files
File Type: pdf IPR Rebuild - Large Pics[1].pdf (283.7 KB, 37 views)
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Old 05-20-2013, 04:22 AM
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Another odd thing that has happened since putting the Edge (with PHP Billy custom tunes), is especially when the truck is cold... When I let off the pedal from any acceleration factor, the motor surges and sometimes has shut off.

I am running his 60 or 75 HP economy tune right now. I also have ability to load a 100 HP performance or a 25 HP heavy tow tune. I have not had those in there for a while.

Another tid bit... A while back, I had a problem that I would not make boost. It was a slug and I was not looking at the ICP and IPR numbers (I did not know what they were). I shut the truck off and filled up with fuel. When I started back up, the truck ran normal. I do not know if this was something stupid of may tell something else.

I think I need to go back to stock program and see what happens.



Mike
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Old 05-20-2013, 09:04 AM
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It almost sounds like you may have an EBP tube and sensor issue also. With a no boost no power issue.
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Old 05-20-2013, 10:30 AM
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Going back to stock is a great trouble shooting step.

My numbers aren't too far from yours. I saw ~ 2700# and 64%

Cruising at 50mph, ~ 700# and 14%

Idle ~ 500# and 10%


Standard pressure was around 2700#. It got up to 67% (while still at 2700#), but it took a second. It all but jumped to 59%, and then crawled it's way up in step with RPM's/Speed. Pressures were from 2200# - 2800#, because of shifting and all that. Bounced some between 2700 and 2500#s. Dethrottle resulted in an expected spike over 3000#.

My 0-60 is 7.2 seconds, and this was a rolling start up to 70mph, so "time frame" is kind of relative. However, I did this uphill to get the best load possible. 100hp perf tune.
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Old 05-21-2013, 08:21 AM
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Before changing back to stock, I tried one more time to see the numbers. It cranked and cranked for some 10 seconds and was dragging quite a bit before firing off. The CEL came on. I went into diagnostics to pull the codes and this is what I got:

P0562 - System Voltage Low
P1670 - Electronic Feedback Signal Not Detected
P1282 - Excessive Injector Pressure (I did see it above 3K)
P0236 - Turbo/Super Charger Boost Sensor A Circuit Range Performance



I do not know if these were all created by the low battery voltage or not. I did put the truck back to the stock program, disconnected 1 battery and put a charger on each battery seperately. I let them charge for 2 hours, one 10A and other at 15A. I pulled the chargers and connected the 2nd battery back up. Went in, as soon as the GP light went off I cranked it. Maybe 2 to 3 seconds most to fire off. Like the good ole days. Of course I did not have the responsive throttle response, but it sounded just fine. I shut it off, waited a minute and it fired right back up again.

I let the truck sit for several hours and went back and it started within 3 seconds.

I went out this morning and it fired up within 4 seconds. I did go ahead and put my 65HP economy tune back in the PCM to see what it does next.

Can a program become corrupt in the PCM and need to be reloaded?

I do know my HPOP numbers are good. What about the fuel getting to the rails? I did replace my fuel filter some 8 - 10K miles at the most ago. But it is funny how it acted correctly with the stock tune.




Thanks for your inputs !




Mike
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