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Old 03-06-2013, 07:18 AM
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p1280-p1247

Hi Im new to the site and just picked up a 99 f250 PSD. Im mechanically inclined with any gas car but new to the diesels. The trucked seemed to be low on power so i hooked up my scan tool to it and got the codes p1280 and p1247.
I pulled up the data stream and seen that the ICP sensor reading was at zero and IPR duty cycle is at 15% at idle and pressure was at the default 725 psi.
I checked the plug going to the ICP sensor and didnt see anything of concern. I also checked for 5 volt ref and it was there. I took it out for a drive to see what my IPR readings were. took it up a hill and found IPR to not go any higher than 35% and pressure was at 2600 psi but still no ICP readings. I dont want to dollar a problem and just purchase a new ICP due to the price so is there any other advice you wise fellows might be able to give me to narrow it down before I drop 170 on a new ICP? Oh and it looks like the ICP has been replaced before because it is the new style but looks like it has been in there for a while. Also the truck does not run any different with the ICP plugged or unplugged. But with it unplugged it trips the CEL when its plugged in it does not. HELP lol.
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:53 AM
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I'm confused....

First, if the PCM saw 0 from the ICP, it wouldn't start the engine...

You say "pressure was at 2600 psi but still no ICP readings". Where are you getting that reading of 2600? A mechanical gauge? If you see it on a scanner, that IS the ICP reporting that. (are you sure we're talking about the same thing?)

Look on eBay if you really need an ICP. You don't have to spend anything like $170 for one. Recently there was a seller who had a lot of them (Motorcraft) he was selling for $49.00 (ALWAYS there for under $100 though for OEM, knock-offs for less)
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:29 AM
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the 2600 was showing on the scan tool as inj contrl press abso. It could not have been reading it from the ICP because that value reads zero on the scanner and on this picture it was not even plugged in as i was sitting at idle. The 2600 reading was also read from the same pid inj contrl press abso when i was driving also without the icp plugged in. Also to note the icp voltage does not move with the sensor plugged in either
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Last edited by MIDWBOSS; 03-06-2013 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIDWBOSS View Post
the 2600 was showing on the scan tool as inj contrl press abso. It could not have been reading it from the ICP
Yes, but you realize that ICP stands for Injection Control Pressure, and that is where a scanner gets that reading from. Now, in the case where you unplug the ICP, the PCM will set a default (limp-in) pressure of 2300 for the IPR to run with. But again, plugged in with an actual reading of "0", it wouldn't run.

In either case, by your picture, I think the problem may be your scanner. Because of the GVWR, plus the Diesel engine, plus all the Ford proprietary codes AND the fact our trucks are Not, strictly OBD-II (we use a modified protocol called SAE J1850 PWM) Regular OBD-II scanners just don't work right. I don't know what scanner you have, But, if may not be what you need to diagnose problems with your truck...
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:24 AM
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Maybe im confused or doing the confusing lol im sorry so bare with me. The scan tool im using is the matco tools determinator (MD3500) which meets the j1850 and im also able to do all of the KOEO and KOER test except the cylinder contribution test which stops due to a ICP p1284 code which again goes back to the ICP to my readings. So if I have the ICP unplugged where is the scan tool getting the pressure reading from? Also wouldnt the ICP volts have positive numbers with the pressures when plugged in? Also I dont notice a difference in the way the truck runs with or without it plugged in. what lead me to believe there is a problem with the ICP is the trouble codes and the fact that when plugged in the ICP volts do not move with the pressure readings they just stay at 0.0
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Old 03-06-2013, 03:44 PM
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The pressure reading is coming from the PCM (pretty much everything in that OBD-II port is going through the PCM, it's not like all the sensors report directly there or anything) and, again, when unplugged the PCM kinda makes up that number.

Yes, you should be seeing positive voltage numbers from the ICP (like 0.85v at about 500psi) and the fact you don't, has to mean either it's passing No Voltage OR it IS and the scanner just isn't recognizing it. This would be hard to figure-out if the engine just cranks & cranks but doesn't start. BUT you DO start - right? So, my thinking is, it must be...

The PCM has certain "rules" for starting (really before it activated the IDM) and when these rules aren't met, these parameters are out of limit, it will Never run. They are things like;

100rpm min on the starter
above 8.5v in the system (the older trucks, like yours, actually need like 10.5v)
it needs to "see" ICP pressure (seen as that voltage like 0.85v)

I'm not positive, never tried really , but with a Zero reading from the ICP I don't think it would even try to start (let alone the fact that if you actually had no pressure, the Injectors couldn't inject fuel)

So, I have to conclude you MUST have HiPres Oil being made & distributed to the injection system for it to start & run (as evidenced in the IPR %'s). Gotta be that scanner isn't reading it properly...
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:59 PM
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I luckily have quite a few different high end scan tools at my disposal where I work at so I will try a few on it and see if i get a different reading.

Yes it starts and puts down some gray smoke in these cold mornings (25-35 deg) smoke clears up after about a minute. It does seem to have a bit of a cackle at times even after warmed up but sometimes it goes away or seems to get quieter. I did a injector buzz test and all passed and all seemed to have the same buzz sound.

It just seems to be so low on power and doesnt have the oomph to merge on to the highway without a great amount of pedal. Its also very sluggish on hills etc.

without the computer being able to get a reading from the ICP it goes into default mode correct? So would this also cause it to be sluggish and low on power when it cant get a reading back? Are the defaults something like a limp mode?
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:06 PM
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the default icp is calculated through multiple inputs to the pcm. similar to load cal. all the same inputs will apply. rpm, map, ect, app, etc..
if the pcm needs to see that icp in order to start, it shouldn't start with it unplugged then. but it will. the idm syncs up with cam signal through the pcm. i don't think icp needs to be seen in order for the idm to function.
i don't think the problem is the scan tool. you have a p1280 code. test at the sensor manually. check your vref, ref ground, and signal v.

then test the same at the pcm. if the readings are correct and the same at the sensor as they are at the pcm, the problem is the pcm.

as for your 1247, check all boost hoses, intercooler and CAC pipes for leaks. the drivers side CAC pipe is notorious for chafing a hole in it on the power steering line fitting.
KOEO, compare your map, baro and ebp readings. they should all read roughly atmospheric.
your 1247 is where your lack of power is likely derived

Last edited by kaya@bernhausen; 03-06-2013 at 09:20 PM.
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