Brakes pulsate , steering wobbles like warped rotors ??? - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
 
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post #1 of 10 Old 03-03-2013, 02:33 PM Thread Starter
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Exclamation Brakes pulsate , steering wobbles like warped rotors ???

2000 F350 7.3 SD Auto Crew Cab DWR 4WD.

After I start truck for the day, the 1st or 2nd time I apply brakes they work fine.

After that, every time I apply brakes, the pedal pulsates extremely hard, and the steering wheel will wobble left to right and back. You can feel the pulsation sitting as a passenger in the front or back seat. Mechanic at dealer said I had a warped rotor or rotors.

I had new rotors, calipers, pads installed. Brakes worked fine for about 30 times, then back to square 1. The same problem again. Dealer took everything off, turned rotors, installed another set of pads. Bled all the brake fluid out of system.

Brakes worked fine again for about 30 times and back to the same problem.

If I apply brakes easy, just a little pulsation, the harder I press the pedal the more extreme the pulsation. If I hit the brakes real hard, almost a lockup,
I get a hard pulsate, then stops pulsating within about 2-3 seconds and the truck stops. Start again and apply brakes and back to the pulsating.

Any Ideas before I shell out for another expensive replacement of rotors, calipers, pads that did not work the 1st time.

Thanks
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post #2 of 10 Old 03-03-2013, 03:54 PM
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Warped rotors is a myth (OK so there is some controversy in this so I'll say IMHO...)

Brake pulsations (IF this is your brakes) are about the slip/grab that happens because of the difference in the surface of the rotors braking area. That surface gets inconsistent and your brakes pulse as the rotor turns and exposes those differences to the pads (turning the rotor gives you a "fresh" surface and cures the issue but NOT because of any warp). You can actually prove this to yourself by taking pulsing rotors off and resurfacing them yourself with a DA sander.

So, that's why it's important to "Bed" the pads properly, that way it keeps the surface consistent, and it Stays consistent. What kind of pads are they? I'd change them before I'd change rotors again.

I assume, if you've had it to the Dealer, they've checked the Front End parts (BJ's - Tie rods - Hubs - etc.)
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post #3 of 10 Old 03-03-2013, 05:00 PM Thread Starter
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Do not know kind of pads as Dealer Installed.

Yes Sir, the front end was check out, everything was OK.

I understand what you are saying.

They put new rotors, Calipers and pads, left with the truck and still had the same problem the next day, brought the truck back the next day. They then took the rotors off and turned them, installed new pads, ( I guess the same pad type brand they had in inventory). Took the truck home and the next day still having the same problem. The Dealer is stumped has supposedly never seen this problem before.

Could they problem be coming from the Master Cylinder or the Power Boost? The last time I worked on a brake system was on a 57 Chevy many decades ago. I know the theory on braking is the same, however the components have changes a lot.

Thank you for your response.

Last edited by Stayloose47; 03-03-2013 at 05:04 PM.
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post #4 of 10 Old 03-03-2013, 05:11 PM
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I wonder if there's something going on with your ABS. The only times I feel any pulsating is during hard braking, which is the ABS keeping it from locking up.

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post #5 of 10 Old 03-04-2013, 02:01 AM Thread Starter
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Thank You for your reply.

Hmmm, I had not thought about the ABS. How ever you are correct in the way ABS functions.

After having a pot of coffee and giving serious thought, I think you are correct that this is the most likely thing to pursue at this time.

Slow Speeds 20 - 35
Apply brakes easy to slow down 3-5 mph, brakes work OK.
Apply brakes easy to complete stop, brakes work OK.
Hard panic stop, someone blew a stop sign, get strong pedal pulsation and steering wheel wobble varies 1/4 to 3/8 inch.

40 - 45
Apply brakes easy to slow down 3-5 mph, brakes OK.
Apply a little harder like a light change not a panic stop, get stronger pulsation in brake pedal and wobble in steering wheel back and forth varies 1/8 to 1/4 inch.
Hard panic stop, extreme pulsation in brake pedal and steering wheel wobble back and forth varies 1/4 to 3/8 inch.

50 - 55
Apply brakes easy to slow down for car pulling into my lane going 3-5 mph slower then I am. Brakes OK.

However if I reply brakes easy to slow down another 3 -5 mph a minute or two later I get light pedal pulsation and steering wheel wobble, back and forth varies 1/8 to 1/4 inch.

Apply brakes harder like a car cuts into your lane inches off your bumper stronger, pedal pulsation and steering wheel wobble 1/4 to 3/8 inch.


55 and Up
Above 50 and apply brakes easy 1 -2 seconds to slow down 3-5 mph get pedal pulsation and steering wheel wobble 1/4 to 3/8 inch.

Apply brakes harder 2 - 3 seconds like car cuts into your lane inches off your bumber pedal pulsation stronger, steering wheel wobble varies 3/8 to 5/8 inch.

Hard for panic stop, extreme pedal pulsation and steering wheel wobble, varies 3/8 to 3/4 inch.

The longer I have to apply the brakes, the stronger the pedal pulsation and steering wheel wobble. Pedal pulsation gets very strong. If you were to use your hand to apply pressure I would think the pedal would move back and forth 1/16 to 1/8 inch.

The steering wheel wobble will start out at 1/8 inch and continue to as much as 1 inch at 65 mph down to 40 mph when coming to a very quick stop.

Last edited by Stayloose47; 03-04-2013 at 02:18 AM.
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post #6 of 10 Old 03-04-2013, 06:10 AM
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And your sure none of this would happen in the "first 30 times"?

Also, seems like all that side-to-side wheel movement is weird (maybe I'm not remembering the last pulsing brakes I had right...).

I'd still be thinking this has something to do with the interaction of the pads and rotor changing (IF it doesn't happen at first). I would go to another pad, and bed them to the rotors right away. You want to smell them, even see a wisp of smoke from them, in a series of consecutive hard, but partial, stops from 50-5mph.

Instructions for bedding in your brakes
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post #7 of 10 Old 03-04-2013, 03:14 PM
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Sounds like you have death wobble caused by bad balljoint or tie rod then a brake problem. Google death wobble and see if that sounds like your issue.

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post #8 of 10 Old 03-04-2013, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnlimitedLove View Post
Sounds like you have death wobble caused by bad balljoint or tie rod then a brake problem. Google death wobble and see if that sounds like your issue.
I think it would be extremely unlikely the Dealership would have missed any of that, especially when trying to resolve this problem they created...
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post #9 of 10 Old 03-04-2013, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoRalPh View Post
I think it would be extremely unlikely the Dealership would have missed any of that, especially when trying to resolve this problem they created...
Bad unit bearings also.

True though, good point!

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post #10 of 10 Old 11-21-2015, 10:35 AM
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Lightbulb Pulsating Brakes

Hello All,

I don't know if you ever figured out what the problem was, but I will tell you my story. I have a 2003 Ford Ranger 2wd... I know it's not a big Powerstroke F350. Anyway, I had a pulsating brake problem in my front disk brakes for 10 years until I finally figured out the problem. I bought the truck new and the problem started within the first 5K - 10K miles. In trying to fix the pulsation & wheel wobble, I replaced the disks 3 times each time with new bearings, seals, and pads. I bleed all 4 brakes multiple times. I checked the parking brake, rear brake, and the ABS. The ABS can be disconnected to simply check if this is the problem. I checked the lug torque, and properly bedded the pads on 2 different pad types (ceramic and semi-metallic). I also checked the front suspension and steering. NONE of this fixed the problem. And no matter how many times I was told that the rotors were WARPED, replacing the rotors never fixed the problem. And as Stayloose47 described, the pulsation would get worse as you drive the truck.

In trying to fix the issue again in 2011, I replaced only the brake pads with semi-metallic's as all the previous pads I tried were ceramic (I was still on my second new set of rotors). I decided to grease the caliper slide pins with caliper lube. The pins were well greased and slid nicely when I was done. SO, fast forward to a couple of days and the problem came back. I didn't think anything of it until I decided to replace the rotors and pads again for the third time. After replacing the pads and rotor on the passenger side, I was just about done with the driver's side when by chance, I happened to check the caliper slide pins before installing the brake pads. I figured I did not need to bother with them as I had just greased them a year prior. To my surprise, the upper pin would NOT MOVE... The lower pin slid out with no problem, but the upper took quite a bit of force to remove. (I think I used some pliers). In looking at the two pins, the only discernible difference was the rubber collar (or boot) that sat in a wide groove in the upper pin. I then looked at the pad and noticed that the pad was worn uneven.... It all started to come together!

According to the manual, a special lube was used on the caliper slide pins. They recommend not to remove it as there was no replacement for the grease at the time, but I think it's just a good silicone based grease. Regardless, I tried using silicone grease, and even making a new rubber collar to put in. I finally decided to just remove the STUPID RUBBER COLLAR! I was going to go down to the local Autozone and pick up a new set of slide pins and use the same solid pin without the groove for both the upper and lower. But I realized this was not necessary. The groove in the pin is well within the slide housing. The shear plane of the pin is at the largest diameter for both pins. Removing the boot will have no effect on strength or safety. In fact, I believe the boot is simply for a noise and vibration abatement (isn't that ironic) .

So, I realized, my vehicle probably had very little lube from the factory, or moisture intruded into the caliper slide pin housing and caused the rubber collar to swell (or both). When you first drive the vehicle, everything is cold, but as soon as heat is pumped through the brakes, everything expands making the problem worse. The swelling caused the pin to seize on that side of the caliper causing the pad to apply uneven pressure, which in turn causes the pulsation. When I finally decide to apply some caliper slide grease the first time, this made the problem even worse as the as the rubber collar requires a grease that will not cause it to swell. It wasn't until my last go around with the pads and rotors that I discovered this and removed the rubber collar from the slide pins, one on each side. I have had not an issue since then in three years. I love driving my truck without pulsating brakes!

I can't tell you if this is the problem on your vehicle because you may not have the rubber collar. If not, then the best this will do is make you check the slide pins. But if you do have the rubber collar, I highly recommend you check this as it is very simple and inexpensive to fix. And you can check it by removing the rubber collar and trying for no cost. It just so happens that I also have an Infiniti I35. In replacing my brake pads last time around, I decided to grease the caliper slide pins. One of the pins on each side also had this damn rubber collar! Although I never had an issue with the brakes on the Infiniti, I canned the collar anyway. Have never had a problem with the I35 either.

Good luck.

Last edited by lee612801; 11-21-2015 at 10:43 AM.
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