P1211 code problem? air in return fuel. - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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Old 05-19-2012, 08:32 PM
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P1211 code problem? air in return fuel.

I have a 2002 F250 with 325,000+ miles. The problem I am having is that it keeps throwing the P1211 code. The dealership mechanic says that he keeps getting air in the fuel in the return line when he checked it out. Last year it got 6 new Ford Injectors and the other two previously replaced injectors got new o-rings(at the dealer). It also just got a new HPOP and regulator(also at the dealer), which actually helped this problem, but did not cure it. I am assuming with the new HPOP that the new higher pressure is somewhat making up for it a bit.



***Before the new HPOP, when under semi-hard acceleration it would throw this code, either in stock programming or with the high performance programming. After the new HPOP, it is very hard to get it to throw the code in stock, but will still do it in performance. ***



If anyone has any ideas as to what is causing this or has experienced it themselves I would appreciate some advice on how to proceed/what to look for.



Thanks
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Old 05-20-2012, 05:50 AM
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Maybe some insight here??

From the "Dieslemans Site under Tech Info"

Loss of power, usually after a hard acceleration; Rough idle; Check engine light comes on, DTC P1211:
Intermittent high pressure oil leakage.
This condition usually occurs when the vehicle is cold and the oil is thick. When performing a hard acceleration, the truck suddenly looses power, the check engine light comes on, and once returning to idle the engine runs rough and won't accelerate. Cycling the key may correct the concern, clearing the code from the PCM will correct it temporarily. If you can monitor data stream, at idle the ICP pressure normally is 400-700 PSI and the IPR duty cycle is 9-14%; at cruise, ICP is 700-1200 pSI and IPR is 15-20%; under normal acceleration, ICP is 1200-2000 PSI and IPR is 20-30%; and under WOT accel, the ICP is up to 3600 PSI and the IPR is 35% or higher. When the above symptom occurs, typically the idle ICP reading will be normal, but the IPR duty cycle will be high--over 20% and up to the max 50%. A "blow-by" condition has occurred somewhere in the HP oil circuit. If you can get the problem to re-occur with some frequency, the most probable cause is worn or deteriorated injector or IPR o-rings. If the problem is intermittent, it could be a sticking IPR valve. Replace the injector o-rings with the latest-level kits--F8TZ-9229-AA. When replacing the IPR, make sure you get the correct part for the build date/serial number of your engine.
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Old 05-20-2012, 06:53 AM
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[QUOTE=NoRalPh;3081070]Maybe some insight here??

From the "Dieslemans Site under Tech Info"

Loss of power, usually after a hard acceleration; Rough idle; Check engine light comes on, DTC P1211:
Intermittent high pressure oil leakage.
QUOTE]

The description of the problem is similar, but I am having no loss in power or rough idle and like I said the IPR is brand new so it is ruled out. Also, it does not matter what the temperature of the oil is, it will turn on the light anytime it is under hard acceleration or under a heavy load on the highway. The only way I know there is a problem is the light coming on, no other symtoms. Also, is it possible for such new orings on the injectors(last year) to have already deteriorated to the point of having this problem? I had read about this problem, but had ruled out orings since they are not that old. I thought it might be something else. Have you ever heard of getting air in the return fuel line?

Thanks again
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Old 05-21-2012, 04:13 AM
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You are running out of HPO. Plain and simple. That is what the ICP is telling you.
Which means either the ICP is correct or lying.
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Old 07-29-2013, 01:48 PM
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So what should he replace? Im having a P1211 issue aswell and i have replaced IPR and ICP and have also replaced injector o rings and uvch and valve cover gaskets. Im at a loss... Im bone stock to. No tuner or anything. Ugh i know its an old post but Thanks. 99 F350 Psd 4x4

Last edited by Jakeob88; 07-29-2013 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 07-29-2013, 03:04 PM
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What you're asking is "what's the next part I should throw at this problem" - right?

And that's just Not the way to diagnose a problem like this... Think of what you've already spent in parts you didn't need! For those two sensors you'd be close to what you need to own a proper diagnostic tool (the AutoEnginuity) that would give you the insight for not only this problem but for the future things that are gonna crop-up.

To understand why the fault is being set you want to monitor what those sensors are telling the PCM about the HiPres Oil system. You could need an HPOP or maybe the pumps putting out what it should and there's a lean (internal) that's bleeding off the pressure. You'll notice my previous post has a good outline to follow, but without the tools to help you, you're just gonna be guessing (how's that worked-out for you so far?)
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Old 07-29-2013, 03:10 PM
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Lol it hasn't worked that well so far. But i think i may have the proper tools.. I am scanning and monitoring with a snap on solus. . Im just not finding anything irregular on the chart... But then again i don't know what exactly Im looking for.. Everything looks good to me.. Its a 8k piece of equipment Im just not that familiar with it because its new.. So I've just been trying what I've read.. Im not a ford diesel mechanic and done really know what to look for. And i do not havn access to all data anymore either. Lol thanks 4 the reply tho

Last edited by Jakeob88; 07-29-2013 at 03:20 PM.
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Old 07-29-2013, 03:50 PM
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In that case,,, I've got more

P1211, P1212 Ford Powerstroke Diesel

Ford Diesels use oil pressure to drive the high pressure fuel injection system. The engine oil pump not only pumps oil to lubricate engine components, but also pumps oil into a reservoir to be used by the high pressure oil pump.

The high pressure oil pump pulls oil from the reservoir and raises the pressure to the point where it can pop open the injectors. The high pressure pump also increases the pressure of the diesel fuel so it can inject into the cylinders and vaporize quickly.

The oil pressure generated by the high pressure oil pump is regulated by an electric solenoid that is pulsed by the PCM. As this Injection Pressure Regulator (IPR) solenoid is powered and de-powered, a small shaft moves back and forth, allowing spurts of oil to flow into the high pressure oil lines The IPR can regulate pressures in excess of 3,000psi. The high pressure oil moves from the pump to the cylinder head through braided steel lines.

The PCM fires the diesel fuel injectors by energizing a solenoid coil in the injector. Unlike gas fuel injectors where the solenoid lifts a pintle off a seat to allow pressurized fuel to flow into the cylinder, the solenoid in Ford diesel fuel injectors allows high pressure oil to flow. Think of this like a doctor’s syringe. The pressurized oil pushes on the plunger of the syringe to “inject” the fuel through the injector and into the cylinder. Since the minimum psi required to open the injectors is 400psi, the PCM monitors the actual pressure of the oil going to the injector with an Injection Control Pressure (ICP) sensor. Using data from the ICP sensor, the PCM can adjust the pulse rate to the IPR.

Since the IPR operates off of a pulsed voltage, the amount of ON time versus OFF time is referred to as “duty cycle.” The high pressure pump can easily achieve pressures in excess of 3,000psi. But it’s up to the IPR to regulate the amount of pressure going to the injectors. The IPR can regulate a 3,000 psi reading with no more than a 12% duty cycle. Yet, the PCM is capable of providing up to a 60% duty cycle to the IPR. However, once it reaches 50%, the PCM sets a trouble code P1211 or P1212 for “ICP above/below normal.

If you receive this code, your first step is to check the oil level in the crankcase. Since the entire high pressure system depends on having enough oil in the reservoir, a drop in oil level of 3 or more quarts can bring the system to a quick stop. Unlike a gasoline engine where the oil pressure sending unit is located in the engine block in an oil gallery, the oil pressure sending unit on a Ford Diesel is located in the top of the high pressure oil reservoir. In other words, Ford wants to make sure the high pressure oil reservoir is getting good oil pressure. If the oil “idiot” light does not go out the high pressure oil reservoir isn’t getting enough pressure. The high pressure pump cannot produce high pressure if it’s not getting enough oil from the engine oil pump. If the oil level checks out and the oil pressure light goes out, move on to the rest of the checks.

The PCM monitors RPM during cranking. As soon as RPMs reach 150, the PCM activates the IPR to begin regulating oil pressure. At the same time, the PCM starts monitoring the ICP sensor to double check oil pressure buildup. As mentioned earlier, the PCM can command up to a 60% duty cycle for the IPR. But if the PCM is providing maximum duty cycle and the ICP reports either less than 400psi or 2,000-2,500psi, and the engine is not running, it concludes there is a problem (a reading of 2,000-2,500 is a programmed “default” reading the PCM provides on the scan tool when it believes there’s a fault in the ICP). If you see 2,000-2,500psi on the ICP scan tool readout AND the engine isn’t running, you should suspect a bad ICP sensor.

If the engine won’t start, you can conclude there’s a problem in the high pressure system. Either the high pressure pump isn’t working, IPR is faulty, or there’s a large leak somewhere in the system that’s preventing pressure buildup. To eliminate a cylinder head leak from the troubleshooting process, remove the high pressure line from the right side head and cap it with a plug that can hold 3,000psi. Then remove the high pressure line from the left side cylinder head and attach a high pressure (3,000psi or more) gauge to the line. Then crank the engine and watch the pressure gauge. If you get a low reading, the problem is either a faulty high pressure pump or a bad IPR. First you must replace the IPR. If the problem still exists, replace the high pressure pump.

(from: P1211, P1212 Ford Powerstroke Diesel : Rick's Free Auto Repair Advice)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From the old AE Forum;

If you hook up the scantool, and monitor ICP (psi) while cranking...you'll see IPR% (duty cycle) climb & climb 15% key on..20, 30, 40, 55%, higher..the increase in IPR% means that the PCM is requesting ICP pressure to increase... so ALSO watch ICP (psi) and if it comes up to only 180-250psi or so and stays there...then it's the IPR hung open (bypassing oil back to the oil pan through the front cover) such that only minimal psi can be made.

If the ICP is VERY low...like under 60psi...then it could be injector (poppets) pissing oil (under the VC's)..which is typical for injector with more than 180-200k miles. If ICP climbs above 550-600..then it will probably climb much higher (15-1800+) and it is most likely going to be an electrical issue.

If the scantool will not connect then its a PCM or chip issue (remove the chip if you have one & haven't removed it yet) if the scantool connects AND you have >600ICP then look at the datastream for a RPM reading. If the scantool picks up an RPM signal and it seems accurate....then the CPS is good.

If you have a scan tool ICP should be 500 PSI ± 25 PSI and fuel pulse width should be 1 to 6 milliseconds.

The above requirements assume the following:
Correct oil level, oil type and pressure
Correct type of fuel
Correct fuel pressure (53 PSI per Ford spec)
Sufficient air supply (clean air filter & unobstructed intake)
Proper oil level in HPOP reservoir (1 to ľ inch from top)
Proper glow plug relay and glow plug operation (in cold weather)
Proper injection timing (PCM controlled)



And this This is from a post by Mr. Hansen:

Set up AE to monitor ICP and IPR duty cycle and crank it over. When you first turn the key on, you should get 14% IPR, and when you crank it, ICP should come up to 500 psi plus and IPR should be probably no higher than 25% or so. If IPR goes above 35% then you may have Injector o-ring leakage. That would explain the long crank times. You may also want to check cranking RPM, which should be a minimum of 100.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, figure-out how to monitor the HPOP pres from the ICP, then watch how "hard" the IPR is working to maintain that pressure (%) and see if it's within specs. If so, drive it around, record a Snap Shot (isn't that what SnapOn calls it?), and wait for the light to come on and review to see if it shows why...
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Old 07-29-2013, 03:58 PM
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Great Im on my way out to the shop to get started on the truck again. Im sure you will hear from me again. Don't mean to be a pest! Thanks.
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Old 07-29-2013, 04:30 PM
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No pestering at all, that's what this place is for.
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