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99-01 to 02-03 Stock Guage Cluster Swap

53K views 29 replies 14 participants last post by  7.3bigwhitebeast 
#1 ·
I did a quick search but all the treads that came up were about aftermarket guages. I was wondering if it was possible to take the guage cluster (speed, tach ect) from a 02 and later model (with the electrical odometer) and put it into a earlier model truck. Thanks in advance for any help
 
#2 ·
I was wondering the same thing... I have a 03 besides the one in my sig, I just haven't taken the time to tear both apart and try the swap:dunno:
 
#3 ·
youll need the wiring harness, cluster, and PCM to make it happen due to the fact that not only are the gauges different but the odometer goes from roller to digital.
 
#5 ·
choupique108, is it only 1 wire that goes up to the speedometer for the pluse rate and another wire from the PCM for the odometer reading? I believe the 99 - 00s have the speed sensor in the tranny/rear end allready installed to the PCM on those models. I was wondering if you can get just the newer PCM and just run the leads up to the speedometer for the pulse rate and another wire for the odometer reading. I don't know if the PCM plugs for the dash harness is that different from 99 - 00 to 01 - 02? :dunno: Will the 05 to 06 gauges fit into the dash of a 00 model? The shape looks the same to me.
 
#4 ·
just stirring up an older thread. I'm looking to do the same thing. Won't us 7.3L guys need the cluster from a 2002 SD? There wasn't any changes in the 2000 and 01 from hwat I can tell. 02 seems to be the first year with digital odometer & gauge cluster change. I have the 02 instrument cluster, now need the dash wiring harness from an 02 SD diesel. is it really necessary to swap the PCM? I was told the cluster has a coding chip in it for the mileage, not in the PCM. Anyone know if this is true?
Thanks in advance!
-JT
 
#6 ·
From doing a little research @ my Ford dealer, the digital odometer and gauge package are called HEC for Hybrid Electronic Cluster. From what I was told today the HEC unit itself keeps the odometer reading not the PCM. The dealer Emailed Ford tech department on all of these questions and hopefully will get an answer soon. Ford likes to pigeon hole this information for some reason. :dunno: I guess they just want you to buy a new truck to get all of the up to date features. :wink[3]:

I am trying to find a wiring diagram for the 00 and 02 F-250s. That way I can see what the difference was in the wiring harness is from year to year. From my on line Ford dealer it looks like 2 gauge clusters were available on the 01 and 02, 7.3 models. 1 listing says it is a gauge cluster and the other listing says it is a Hybrid III cluster. The Hybrid III cluster is cheaper then the other cluster. Getting rid of the mechanical odometer and replacing it with a digital version would be the reason why, IMO. If 2 gauge clusters were available in 01 and 02 for the 7.3s the changes to the factory wirng harness would be very little, I am guessing. If any Forum member knows of any web sites that has Ford wiring diagrams for the 00 and 02 and up F-250s please let me know.
 
#7 ·
These came from my Chiltons book #26667... :thumb: :dunno:

 
#8 · (Edited)
:thumb: Thanks the1laf for the harness pics. Mitchells and Alldata are just like the versions you posted here.

Searching around I found this great web site from FORD itself. :icon_ford: It has the shop manuals, electrical diagrams that Ford uses for making the harness, TSBs and all of the data on your 94 and newer Ford truck. The site does use a crappy version of an Adobe viewer which isn't working right now for me for the big files, (shop/electrical manual) but I can view the rest of the information that is available on the site. Looks like the way to go if you want all of the service information for your Superduty. $19 dollars a month gets you a single year/truck model (2000/f-250 only) pass to the site. Well worth it to me to get all of that information. A 72 hour pass will cost you $10.00 for the same package. You can copy the information for your personal use, but you are not allowed to reproduce it in any way. :wink[3]:

I will be using the information to see if the 02 - 03 digital dashes fit into the 99 - 01 Superdutys. If they do, I am almost sure the 04 to 06 gauges will work too. The senses for the gauges and speedometer are all electrical anyway so it shouldn't be too hard to make everything work, if the 04 to 06 gauge cluster fits into the earlier model dashes as it looks like it will, IMO.

http://www.motorcraftservice.com
 
#9 ·
ya i want an 05 cluster! anyone figure it out
 
#10 ·
The 05 with the white face looks good to me also. I am waiting to snag 1 but haven't had any luck finding a good one. The gauge cluster in the 99 - 02 is microprocessor controlled unit. Once I get my hands on a 05 cluster it will be very easy to tell if Ford used the same microprocessor to control both gauge clusters, old and new. IMO, Ford did use the same unit to control both clusters. I will find a 05 dash here shortly and find out for sure. I am sure the connectors will be different and some wire colors will change but the basic gauge package will be the same, IMO.



Here is 1 version of a 05 dash. I believe there is 2 more versions available. :dunno: It looks like it will fit into the 99 - 01 dash no problem, IMO. The big car companies don't like to spend money retooling the production line for gauges, door panels, switches, electrical connectors, relays, microprocessors and other parts of the infrastructure of the truck.

GM kept the C3 Vette for 14 years. 3rd Gen Camaro for 10 years. I have a 85 Z-28 with 2010 Camaro SS Brembo brakes on it. When designing the new 2010 Camaro, GM went back to the 02 Camaro platform as a benchmark for parts. GM didn't want to spend money redesigning the infrastructure parts of the new Camaro.
 
#11 ·
I like the newer dash
 
#12 ·
I have the complete dash out of my 2000. I aquired a 2005 gauge cluster out of a F-250 with a diesel. I will be finding out how to hard wire this 2005 gauge cluster into the 2000 truck. The difference in the 2 units is the 00 has 3 electrical connectors to the gauge cluster the 2005 unit has 2. I will let the Forum know what I find out in the next couple of days. :)
 
#14 ·
I think you will need to do a bit of "customizing" on the 02/03 cluster. IIRC there is a communication bus between the PCM and cluster on 02 and later models. Early models will have individual leads for the diesel indicators (WTS/WIF.) SO either you will need to mod the cluster to handle the extra wiring, or replace the PCM and mod the truck wiring to work with the new cluster. I was looking into this due to a friend's '02 that has WTS light issues. TSB recourse is re-flash PCM and replace cluster.
 
#19 ·
Here is a picture of the communication bus (chip) thats in the gauge cluster on my 2000 F-250. The white faced gauge cluster was a POS and I returned that guy. Getting the plug ends for the gauge cluster was a PITA as no one wanted to chop apart a wiring harness just to sell the plugs.



I scored another gauge cluster :thumb: from a 05 HD F-250 diesel. (ebay completed auction) This one is complete with pig tail ends. So if need be I can hard wire up the guy to the 2000 harness. I have contacted Ford and they are very tight on this information if the 05 dash will work in the 2000 F-250.

The PCM controlled the speedometer/odometer in the 2000 models so I am hoping the same voltages will apply for the 05 gauge cluster. As I stated earlier large companies don't like to change their infrastructure pieces to much to keep costs down. Car companies will change wiring colors from year to year but that shouldn't make much difference in this case. Water temp, oil pressure gauges, tach and gas gauges are all the same from 2000 to 05. Different color faces on the gauges sometimes, but that is all the difference there is.

I will have the gauges in about 7 days and I will be finding out 1st hand if the 05 gauge package will work or not. I am hoping it will. I am also looking into the turbo boost gauge that is in the HD gauge cluster and what excatly that takes for it to work also.
 
#16 ·
Any updates on this? I found a set of 2004 harley gauges decently priced that I would like to put in my 99. Will it work, How difficult?? Anyone??
 
#20 ·
Your 2000 has a digital odometer?
 
#21 ·
My 00 guy has a mechanical odometer Alberta 7.3. I was wondering myself where the odometer reading was kept myself, in the PCM or the gauge cluster itself. Maybe this will answer your question also.

I was told by Ford's 3rd party gauge repair shop the the odometer information was stored on the chip inside the gauge cluster itself. That is why you have to tell Ford what your current mileage is on your truck now when you buy a new gauge cluster from them.

Ford will not sell you a gauge cluster with 0 miles on it. You have to give them the VIN # for the truck and the current mileage on the truck. If the miles are too low Ford will not proscess the order. You do not have to send Ford your PCM for this to happen. This tends to bolster my belief in what the 3rd party repair shop told me about where the odometer information is stored.

If you have any information/suggestions on this Alberta 7.3 I sure would like to hear it. I never done the swap before and this is breaking new ground for me. :) I think the newer style gauges look great in the older trucks myself.
 
#22 ·
As far as I can tell from 99-2 wiring diagrams I have, any of the trucks with an analog (wheels) odometer will have no PCM communication. The board at the top of the cluster takes inputs from the VSS to drive the speedometer/odometer. The remaining logic on that board handles the "low fuel" light and processes oil press/temp/tach values to turn on the "check gauges" warning light (red oil can/thermometer light in upper left of cluster.)

PCM interaction with the older cluster is for indicator lights SES, cruise, WTS, WIF

It isn't until the 2002MY that there is communication between the PCM and instrument cluster via the communication bus. This is easiest to note by finding a twisted pair of tan/orange and pink/light blue wires in the cluster connector. There is no longer a VSS input to the cluster.

Whether or not the mileage information is located in the PCM or cluster is subject for debate, and usually requires a PCM or cluster swap to determine what causes the change. I've heard conlicting stories about where the mileage is stored. The deeper question is what needs to be done to make the 02 and later cluster work on a 01 and earlier truck. Can the PCM be re-flashed so it will communicate with the cluster, or does the PCM need to be changed as well. It won't be plug-and-play. The diesel PCM is an ignorant SOB when other non-programmed devices are connected, like electronic climate control, they just won't communicate.
 
#23 ·
Thanks for the information there Alberta 7.3.:thumb: Many Thanks for your input. If you are in Houston 1 day, I'd be happy to buy you a Molson for your troubles.

If I remember right, the transmission also has a speed sensor in it and sends this information to the PCM along with the VSS from the rear axle. The PCM compares the 2 different signals to determine what the speedometer should be reading. I will re-new my subscripition to Motorcraftservice.com and check the wiring diagrams again. If this is true, just maybe the gauge cluster will be an easy swap.

If the PCM doesn't control the VSS in the older models Alberta 7.3, you are very correct about the PCM problems with the new cluster. It would require the PCM to maybe be re-flashed or the 05 PCM to be used. Are the wire harness plugs ends the same on the PCM units for the 99 - 01 F-250s and the 05 guys? If so it might require getting the 05 PCM get flashed over for the 7.3 engine.

Any ideas on the turbo boost gauge and how it is installed in the 05 models? Electrical, mechanical any sensors? I can't find any information on this setup. It looks to have only come on King Ranch and Harley trucks only.
 
#24 ·
I believe you're referring to the 4R100's turbine speed sensor (TSS.) I thought that this sensor was intended to allow the PCM to determine TC slippage, but maybe it has other functions as well.

I'd image we'd need to run a 02/03 PCM if a swap is needed. Anything newer would be 6.0 (except foreign markets.) A side-by-side comparison of the FSM connector face views would have to be done, and re-pin any wires that are in a different location. This isn't overly difficult. Many guys have changed the PCM pin-out on a Cali OBS to run a federal single shot PCM/injectors.

I've never looked to closely at a newer truck. The boost gauge is a crapshoot. I'd guess it's electronic, with either a sending unit, or is fed by the PCM with data from the MAP sensor.
 
#25 · (Edited)
I got a hold of customer service in Dearborn, Mi. and they actually connected me to the Ford enginering department. The department was swamped with calls and I told them they can just Email me the information I requested.

The Ford customer service rep I 1st talked to called me back late this afternoon and explained to me, the engineering department didn't get around to my request. Marie then told me a engineer will call me on Monday and talk to me about my problem.

I was amazed that I actually got a call back from Ford. :icon_ford: Great customer service IMO. :nod: Ford could have just blown off my request for information but they didn't and called me back. I was very surprized and gratefull for the good service. Maybe when I talk to an engineer next week about this swap he will be able to provide some answers that can make this swap possible.

TNX again Alberta 7.3 for your great suggestion using the 02 - 03 PCM for the gauge swap. From what I can see the 99 - 03 PCMs all have the same number of pins for the connectors. This is a step in the right direction and I will inquire about this also on Monday when I talk to the Ford engineer. :)
 
#27 ·
good info so far :thumb:

As far as sender voltages, etc, one can always swap senders or make an adapter.

My biggest worry is the speedometer operation, anything else I can make work.

After all, how many 2000 trucks have electronic climate control? :sly:
 
#28 ·
Great mod there Alberta 7.3. Is there a thread out here on the Forum that has that ECC mod in it, as the subject. Another great mod that updates the older model trucks with the newer tech. I will have the HD gauges here soon and will be able to get this project moving forward sometime here in the very near future. Thanks again Alberta 7.3 for all of the help. :)
 
#30 ·
what's the verdict?

is it done? i am wanting to do the 05-07 cluster swap in my 2000. just seeing if anyone has finished a swap to the 02 or 05 cluster yet... sorry i'm new to this site so forgive me if i sound like i'm butting in
 
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