DP Tuner and your Transmission - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
Powerstroke.org is the premier Diesel Truck Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-22-2009, 06:34 AM
Member
 

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Imperial Beach CA
Posts: 87
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Lightbulb DP Tuner and your Transmission

Ive got a Dp F5, 4" turbo back, intake, CCV mod, gauges. After discussing this with a local grease monkey, is it better for your trans to drive around all day in 80hp econo?
I understand that there is less "layover" between gear changes and the shifts are much firmer, which should create less heat. Just wondering if the firm, jaring shift, could be worse than the long, smooth, stock shift. Does anybody see a difference in trany temps between the stock and 80hp econo?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 04-22-2009, 06:57 AM
Living on a prayer
 

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Salem, Oregon
Posts: 291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Disclaimer statement: I really don't know much about this stuff.
I drive around in-town lately in 40T. The TC locks up sooner in the 40T under acceleration. Shifts seem firmer/quicker for me in the 40T. I don't remember a difference in MPG between the two in-town. I suppose I should talk to Jody and see if I'm good to go. Also, when i'm hovering just above and below the 35 MPH mark for more than a block or two I usually turn of the overdrive so it keeps the TC locked down to 30mph. I just hate the feeling of the TC unlocking, then locking again when i get back up to 35 mph.
Hey jroller, you should fill out a signature block with your upgrades so you don't have to keep letting folks know your mods.
Update: so tonight on the way home (8 mile drive through town) i put it in 80E and felt the power. It really is quicker from a stop. i think i'll keep it in 80e for a few weeks.

Last edited by samiam; 04-22-2009 at 07:37 PM. Reason: had second thoughts
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3  
Old 04-22-2009, 07:01 AM
Cynic
 

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 11,194
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Anytime you add power, your trans gets hotter. Exception? All *GOOD* tuners will raise the line pressures to help keep slipping down. They will also change the shift points depending on what tune you are running.

One tune is not "better" than another. All trucks are different, talk to your tuner and have them adjust the tune to your truck. If I put your chip in my truck, I'm sure it would shift/run like crap. If you installed any of mine, it would be harsh and you would hate the road manners.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4  
Old 04-22-2009, 07:13 AM
Member
 

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Imperial Beach CA
Posts: 87
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Hey jroller, you should fill out a signature block with your upgrades so you don't have to keep letting folks know your mods.
*good call*
Yeah not only does its shift much firmer it downshifts like a manual. Before my downshifts were undectable and now you definatley know its downshifting through every gear.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5  
Old 04-22-2009, 07:22 AM
Member
 

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Imperial Beach CA
Posts: 87
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk View Post
Anytime you add power, your trans gets hotter. Exception? All *GOOD* tuners will raise the line pressures to help keep slipping down. They will also change the shift points depending on what tune you are running.

One tune is not "better" than another. All trucks are different, talk to your tuner and have them adjust the tune to your truck. If I put your chip in my truck, I'm sure it would shift/run like crap. If you installed any of mine, it would be harsh and you would hate the road manners.
True. I guess I am just trying to prolong the inevidable transmission rebuild.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6  
Old 04-22-2009, 09:05 PM
Powerstroke.org Sponsor
 

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 388
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Just my $.02 but with DP programming the shifts should not be "jarring". Jodys trans tuning yields some of the most consistent and smooth shifts while still being quicker and firmer than stock. If you are having "jarring" shifts, there may be something else going on.

Case in point. We did a chip in a 2002 truck a while back. In "stock" it seemed to shift ok, typical sloppy stock shifting. In any program with significant power increase the shifts (one in particular) were downright violent. At first we figured that the truck had unknown valve body work since it had been purchased used, so I had Jody adjust the tuning accordingly (as he would with a BTS, SunCoast or trans with TransGo kit). This involved reducing the programmed line pressure increase since we were assuming that the trans/valve body already had it turned up. Guess what...NO CHANGE...still shifted violently. We tried adjusting this several times in the programming and finally came to the conclusion that it wasn't something we could program out. We ended up making a call to John Wood and driving the truck to him to get the trans looked at. As soon as we described the symptoms he told us it had a stock valve body and the clutches were worn and not doing their job. This was over the phone, without looking at the truck. When he pulled the trans down, he was 100% right, clutches were toast. After he rebuilt it and we put the original program back in, shifting was perfect.

So, why were the shifts so hard with worn clutches, even with reduced line pressures? With the extra power of the chip the trans would slip very badly during shifts (the one in particular). This slippage would occur for about a second until the clutches generated a bunch of friction and heat and then grabbed like nobodys business (SLAM!). It wasn't a firm shift...it was SSSLLLIIIIPPPPPP....BANG! Like most people would, we felt initially that the problem was the trans programming in the chip. In reality, it was the extra power of he chip and the poor internal condition of the trans. I have found this same situation in a bunch of customers trucks since. If you're putting a chip in a well worn trans and getting overly harsh shifts (particularly from a programmer that is known for having fantastic trans shifting), there is a good chance that there are other factors involved. Before you blame your programmer, consider the above.

As a side note, it should be mentioned that the above can happen in varying severities. Some have had shifts I would call "overly firm" where others had "VIOLENT" shifts. The difference was the condition of the trans, with the "VIOLENT" behavior coming from the more worn units. For the situation where the issue is at the less severe end of the spectrum, upgrading the valve body to a unit that mechanically helps improve the shifting can reduce the problem and offer some additional trans life. This is particularly true of the 02-03 trucks, and is the primary reason I've been working with JW to offer his valve body setups. This isn't a "FIX" if you've got significant internal wear, but it can buy you some time before you need to do a rebuild. If the trans is in good shape, it can certainly buy you some peace of mind and longevity by making sure that the shifts work as they are supposed to.

Hope that helps.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7  
Old 04-23-2009, 11:37 AM
Member
 

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Imperial Beach CA
Posts: 87
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by ITPDiesel View Post
Just my $.02 but with DP programming the shifts should not be "jarring". Jodys trans tuning yields some of the most consistent and smooth shifts while still being quicker and firmer than stock. If you are having "jarring" shifts, there may be something else going on.

Case in point. We did a chip in a 2002 truck a while back. In "stock" it seemed to shift ok, typical sloppy stock shifting. In any program with significant power increase the shifts (one in particular) were downright violent. At first we figured that the truck had unknown valve body work since it had been purchased used, so I had Jody adjust the tuning accordingly (as he would with a BTS, SunCoast or trans with TransGo kit). This involved reducing the programmed line pressure increase since we were assuming that the trans/valve body already had it turned up. Guess what...NO CHANGE...still shifted violently. We tried adjusting this several times in the programming and finally came to the conclusion that it wasn't something we could program out. We ended up making a call to John Wood and driving the truck to him to get the trans looked at. As soon as we described the symptoms he told us it had a stock valve body and the clutches were worn and not doing their job. This was over the phone, without looking at the truck. When he pulled the trans down, he was 100% right, clutches were toast. After he rebuilt it and we put the original program back in, shifting was perfect.

So, why were the shifts so hard with worn clutches, even with reduced line pressures? With the extra power of the chip the trans would slip very badly during shifts (the one in particular). This slippage would occur for about a second until the clutches generated a bunch of friction and heat and then grabbed like nobodys business (SLAM!). It wasn't a firm shift...it was SSSLLLIIIIPPPPPP....BANG! Like most people would, we felt initially that the problem was the trans programming in the chip. In reality, it was the extra power of he chip and the poor internal condition of the trans. I have found this same situation in a bunch of customers trucks since. If you're putting a chip in a well worn trans and getting overly harsh shifts (particularly from a programmer that is known for having fantastic trans shifting), there is a good chance that there are other factors involved. Before you blame your programmer, consider the above.

As a side note, it should be mentioned that the above can happen in varying severities. Some have had shifts I would call "overly firm" where others had "VIOLENT" shifts. The difference was the condition of the trans, with the "VIOLENT" behavior coming from the more worn units. For the situation where the issue is at the less severe end of the spectrum, upgrading the valve body to a unit that mechanically helps improve the shifting can reduce the problem and offer some additional trans life. This is particularly true of the 02-03 trucks, and is the primary reason I've been working with JW to offer his valve body setups. This isn't a "FIX" if you've got significant internal wear, but it can buy you some time before you need to do a rebuild. If the trans is in good shape, it can certainly buy you some peace of mind and longevity by making sure that the shifts work as they are supposed to.

Hope that helps.
Good info thanks. This transmission was replaced by Ford about 7k ago, so I dont think thats the case here. As a matter of fact when I take it from 80hp to the 160 aggressive it shifts even harder and chirps the tires in the first couple of gears. I think I need to ride in another truck with the 80hp tune, it may be absolutely normal. Lastly in stock form I dont notice the trans downshifting, on my 80hp I feel EVERY one.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8  
Old 04-23-2009, 09:03 PM
Powerstroke.org Sponsor
 

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 388
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Chirping the tires isn't normal for any DP tune. Even my race tune, with "on/off" lockup, firmer shifts and a totally built trans only chirps if I'm in a corner (stupid locker). Your shifts sound overly firm, I can't offer a reason unless there is something done to the valve body that is not currently known.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9  
Old 04-23-2009, 09:19 PM
Member
 

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Imperial Beach CA
Posts: 87
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by ITPDiesel View Post
Chirping the tires isn't normal for any DP tune. Even my race tune, with "on/off" lockup, firmer shifts and a totally built trans only chirps if I'm in a corner (stupid locker). Your shifts sound overly firm, I can't offer a reason unless there is something done to the valve body that is not currently known.
Really? Well allow me to enlighten you. See below (F5 Dp Tuner) video brought to you by the very knowledgable Maintain. Pay close attention to the tires chirping between shifts.

Diesel Movies - I install a DPTuner F5 chip in my buddies truck. Positions were Stock hi idle 60tow 80econo 120 race 140smoke.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10  
Old 04-24-2009, 07:04 PM
Member
 

Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 80
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Hey JRoller

Quote:
Originally Posted by jroller View Post
Good info thanks. This transmission was replaced by Ford about 7k ago, so I dont think thats the case here. As a matter of fact when I take it from 80hp to the 160 aggressive it shifts even harder and chirps the tires in the first couple of gears. I think I need to ride in another truck with the 80hp tune, it may be absolutely normal. Lastly in stock form I dont notice the trans downshifting, on my 80hp I feel EVERY one.
I have a 2000 F250 w/ a new trans from Ford and and new DPTune. I'm in Md, Bring it over, i'd like to try the 160. I have the 80E tune and can feel every downshift. Its smooth, but noticeable. If you have any questions about how mine drives/shifts, i'm happy to help.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
Garage Plus, Vendor Tools vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.

vB.Sponsors