Big Oil

[Klutch]

Potentially shorten the life with other stock compenents is not true IMHO. I think you really need to hear from people that have run these setups. The stealth has just came out with a revamped version of their pump. I don't think you are giving this a chance or being open minded, considering the amount of info you have. You need to talk to more people.

[mschn99]

Originally Posted by Klutch

Potentially shorten the life with other stock compenents is not true IMHO. I think you really need to hear from people that have run these setups. The stealth has just came out with a revamped version of their pump. I don't think you are giving this a chance or being open minded, considering the amount of info you have. You need to talk to more people.

giving a diesel 400+ horsepower is going to reduce the motor life. can you seriously look me in the face and tell me that i will ever see a "big oil" truck that will go 600,000miles or more, cause i have driven 7.3's that still felt plenty strong that had that on them. these motors are not designed to run that much power, and while they might be capable, they will not hold up to the abuse forever. i have, after listening to you and talking to the other guy, had enough insight to be intreaged by this on a performace and pull contest type level.....but i refuse to tell the guys on here that a diesel certified tech would reccomend this mod....there are cheaper ways to get sufficient power....and ways that have less potential harm to the motor. i have extreme worries about running the stock injectors with a more consistantly toward peak system. the injector will see the high pressures more cause its there and the driver will want to use it. i think the CAC injector will have the most abuse. RPM's are a diesels worst enemy....and anyone who has this type of mod is going to hit high rpms more than the guy just running a chip.....im not skeptical of the system anymore.....i just would not reccomend it for the average diesel owner that wants more power.

[Klutch]

Each to there own. You have your opinion and then there are others. Cheaper ways to get a 400hp number would be correct to say, but to say it is a usable 400hp, no. Big Oil would probably be the safest and most usable 400hp.IMHO

[twildman]

Ok, there are just a misconceptions here.

First of all the "big oil" is DOES NOT add horsepower, plain and simple. It will however allow you to use the hp that is already there.

When you put the twin oil pumps on all this does is keep the volume of oil up, it will broaden the power range of your truck.

If you add big oil to a truck with stock injectors, early or late model, then you will simply be able to maintain the pressure that the stock programing is calling for in the first place. Someone explain to me how this is in any way shape or form going to shorten the life of your motor in the least? It won't.

If you add big oil to a truck that has modded injectors, then you will certainly notice a diffference in the performance of the truck especially at higher speeds because the pumps will keep the amount of oil the pcm is calling for, and it won't drop off like a single hpop will when trying to keep up with demand.

I have tuned trucks with big injectors, small injectors, medium injectors, and big oil, I can raise the icp up to my desired limits and keep it there, and the smoothness of the power is incredible. The powerstroke has a specific injection ratio and was designed by the engineers at Navistar to run for a very long time at that ratio, all big oil does is keep that ratio where it was designed to run at. This does not shorten engine life, this makes the motor run as it was designed to do.

I have 230cc hybrid injectors in my truck, I can record a run on my auto enginuity software and monitor the hpop and fuel deliver etc, etc. I can with my stock pump maintain oil pressure of 3100 psi at wide open throttle. Now how is this any different that maintaining 3100 psi with big oil on stock injectors? Keep in mind on the late 99 and up 7.3L the stock AD injectors are an absolute killer if oil pressure. Now the stock programing is designed to run the injectors at a minimum of 2900 psi of oil, it won't do it, thats why IH increased the the degree of the swash plate on the stock pump, to allow more volume and keep up with the injectors. If IH saw the need for higher hpop pressure, why can't we?

A 94-97 model truck will not have the same hpop issue's that the superduty's have simply because the injectors do not kill the pressure like the later trucks, and because the injectors are much smaller. But when you add a set of modded injectors to the older trucks, the hpop pressure will drop like a rock, thats when alot of guys add a later model pump, why? To keep the oil pressure up where it was designed to be.

As far as the poster who said that the stock trucks have a major problem with blowing seals or lines or gaskets, I have a close friend who is a Ford diesel mechanic with many years of working on the powerstroke, and he said that is quite unheard of, so I'm not sure where that info was coming from, but I think it unlikely that there are any major issue's with it.

I personally know of several trucks with big oil on them and quite a few other mods to boot, and they have had them on there along time and no issues whatsoever with any blown lines, rod's threw the block, heads lifting, etc.

Big Oil is not the enemy to the motor. Cyliner pressure is the enemy and in a big way, and big oil will not increase cylinder pressure, incorrect programing and drugs will do that.

[mschn99]

Originally Posted by twildman

As far as the poster who said that the stock trucks have a major problem with blowing seals or lines or gaskets, I have a close friend who is a Ford diesel mechanic with many years of working on the powerstroke, and he said that is quite unheard of, so I'm not sure where that info was coming from, but I think it unlikely that there are any major issue's with it.

well then he doesnt work on too many 7.3's cause i did 3 sets of HPOP orings last week. i know guys on here have had them fail also.....injector o rings also fail.......usually only on vehicles with high milage or that have sat for a long period of time without being started though.....your buddy either did not understand what you asked him or doesnt see that many 7.3's....cause the o rings on the pump fittings are one of the more common 7.3 repairs......Marc

[mschn99]

monday ill call our FSE.....lets see what the verdict in from and enganeer......ill get back to you guys on it. our FSE is a cool guy who actually drives a pretty hot 7.3.....so he should have some good insight......Marc

[Ramsmoker]

For most of us who use our trucks in many applications, big oil is not the best spent HP per dollar. I see some short commings of the stock HPOP. I just can't see the cost of a new HPOP being wise money spent for a street truck. People who can spend this kind of money for the small increase don't have two kid's in collage and working the farm.

[twildman]

Ramsmoker, I agree with you totally, only mine are all 7 and under, it is an expense I can't afford right now, but then again, with my injectors I really don't need it.

In regards to the most beneficial, a person who has a super duty and has already chiped it, exhaust mods, guages etc, and is looking for a solid 375 or so hp and it is a choice between big oil or modded injectors, I would seriously look at the oil system, simply because the fuel the stock AD injectors provide is plenty to get that number, and with big oil the improvement is considerable.

[Klutch]

Yeah, what he said.

[drmiller100]

lets look at the hpop system. there is a pump at one end, and a controlled leak IPR at the other, and 8 little gizmos in the middle that use the oil to perform the work of injecting diesel.
I know, that isn't hte way it actually lays out, but for purposes of explanation, it absolutely works.

So, the controlled leak (ipr) is in turn controlled by the computer (pcm). the IPR is TOTALLY capable of leaking a stupid amount of oil to GUARANTEE excessive pressures will NEVER be reached.

So, the idea that big pumps cause big pressures is incorrect.

On a bone stock system, the stock HPOP can keep up with oil needs. Many of us have fun hotrodding our engines to get more power. Will more power shorten the life of our engines? OF COURSE IT WILL! The goal is to get the most bang for our buck and life expectancy.
So, if you want the absolute most life expectancy of your engine, swap out the air filter assembly cuz it lets dirt in, and detune your engine 50 horsepower.

OTOH, some of us want more power. Tunes from Jody are proven, as are others, to build more power with relatively little hit to life expectancy. Add a muffler, intake, and tunes, and you can get probably 120 horse, mebbe.
After that, you hit a limit.
You are out of HPOP oil. Why? well......
To get the 120 horsepower, you are injecting more diesel into your engine. More diesel into your engine means your injectors are running longer. Because your injectors are running longer, they are consuming more oil.
There reaches a point where your oil pump can't pump enough oil into the system to keep up.
When this happens, your hpop pressures start dropping. This is not a big deal, except that now instead of hte optimum 20k psi, you are injecting at 14k psi or something, and your fuel is not atomizing.
Again, not a big deal. Unatomized diesel doesn't hurt anything. It makes big clouds of black smoke, and lots of heat, but doesn't make any GO.

Once you reach this point, you have two choices. you can add big oil. or you can change injectors.
Adding big oil gets your diesel injectors designed to work at 20k psi again wokring at 20k psi.

If you change your injectors, you are basically back to injecting your fuel at 14k psi. maybe the different injectors are happier at 14k psi, and can atomize it. i don't know.

I would invite the poster saying he read 450 horse on stock injectors/stock turbo with big oil to post a link showing where he read that.

Or, shut up about it. {On edit, apparently I offended someone. I have never seen the claim of 450 horse on stock injectors, stock turbo, just big oil. If that claim was made I invite whoever to post the link ot that message. Otherwise, I invite the poster to quit posting gross exagerations and outright untruths. All it does is confuse people. If you edit your claims, I will edit my shut up comments. Sorry I hurt your feelers.}

400 horse on big oil, stock turbo, stock injectors is probbly doable, but i don't think anyone has claimed it yet.

finally, can adding big oil add horsepower? Absolutely. Instead of black clouds of smoke that sky rocket EGT's, you get diesel atomized in the combustion chamber that produces work.

so, myths busted:
450 horse on big oil alone
excessive pressures in HPOP system
big injectors give me free atomization
i can produce 600 horsepower on my engine, and go 400k miles with no ill affects
big oil can't make more horspower.