What do YOU think about injector ballancing???

[BlueMule]

Originally Posted by gtspowerstroke

I don't want any debate in this thread.

Originally Posted by gtspowerstroke

Cary my opinion doesn't count in this thread.

Originally Posted by gtspowerstroke

Like I said in the begining I just want opinions on the subject not debate or arguments.

Someone musta used the GTS login, this is not the Geoff I know

[Dirk]

Originally Posted by gtspowerstroke

Nope. Though I haven't been on there in awhile. Are you here to cause problems or contribute. Like I said in the begining I just want opinions on the subject not debate or arguments.

Binder I would agree that the factory doesn't ballance the injectors as a set. I've never talked to anyone at the factory to verify this but they don't sell them as a set of 8 per se so I don't think that's the case. I think the only real ballance they do is make sure all the specs are within tolerance and call it good.

Reportedly the PCM will compensate up to about 15% difference in flow on the injectors. Or more accurately 15% variance in cylender contribution. I have not verified this but it's what I've been told. But who wants their whole set of injectors being drug down because one isn't contributing as much as the rest?

Jim thanks for your thoughts on this. I was hoping you'd chime in! I do have to say I'd agree with what you said about there being a ton of trucks on the road with a bad injector or that have had a bad injector replaced. I think a lot of times the performance is hindered but it's so little over such a period that the person never really feels it. Then after they get their injectors rebuilt or replaced with new they notice just how much they lost.

Stroking I had a funny feeling that was the case. If it is constantly dribbling fuel from a stuck pintle or a bad o-ring the fuel that is in the cylender is displacing air and will greatly increase compression. This is why when you have a bad lower o-ring it sometimes knocks so bad. It's just that that cylender has way more compression. You've seen what this does as well as CSIPSD has when his pistons were toasted from it.

It's closer to 10%, but true none the less. (And this is from my own testing on my truck with 120, 140, and 230 injectors). I've heard up to 20%, but I haven't seen that.

[Dirk]

Just to add, the larger the injector, the less the PCM would compensate. I no longer have access to the tools I need to play/monitor anymore.

I really need to drive my truck to Tony's and have him watch everything while I drive around..

[NOVAJOE105]

I agree with the majority on haveing the injectors balanced, especially on big sticks due to the amount of fuel they are flowing. I believe that a balanced set of injectors all flow the same amount of fuel in a given amount of time +/- a small amount of variance. I would and will definately spend the extra cash to have mine balanced weather I do a DIY kit or buy a set already built. there is enough torsional stress put on the lower end of these engines as it is now. Much less when you throw a big set of sticks in it and forget to balance or just don't care.

[twildman]

Originally Posted by Dirk

I really need to drive my truck to Tony's and have him watch everything while I drive around..

I would be glad too, but dang, we live so far apart the traffic would kill you getting over here LOL

[gtspowerstroke]

Originally Posted by BlueMule

Someone musta used the GTS login, this is not the Geoff I know

Actually it is. It's amazing how things go when you and the rest of the posse aren't constantly starting things. It's always funny how you and the others always seem to show up in threads like this with your 1st post and the thread just continues down hill from there. If you want to contribute please do so. If you are just coming here to start problems kindly do it somewhere else.

[DZL JIM]

Originally Posted by gtspowerstroke

Binder I would agree that the factory doesn't ballance the injectors as a set. I've never talked to anyone at the factory to verify this but they don't sell them as a set of 8 per se so I don't think that's the case. I think the only real ballance they do is make sure all the specs are within tolerance and call it good.

I read somewhere that Alliant balances them to within 6% of their standard flow, whatever that may be. Not sure how much truth there is, or even remember where I read this. But it'd make sense to have some kind of tolerance so that all of them are within a certain spec/flow from the get-go...

Reportedly the PCM will compensate up to about 15% difference in flow on the injectors. Or more accurately 15% variance in cylender contribution.

So does this mean a CCT done on a motor will only pick-up an injector flowing 15% (or 10% as mentioned) different from the rest? Anything less than 10% won't be noticed?
Gets me to wondering how much an injector actually needs to be different from the others to be picked up by a CCT, like cc wise...

I think a lot of times the performance is hindered but it's so little over such a period that the person never really feels it. Then after they get their injectors rebuilt or replaced with new they notice just how much they lost.

I'd think that would be inevitable...

---

Last edited by DZL JIM : 08-28-2008 at 06:42 AM.

[gtspowerstroke]

Injectors from Alliant actually come from CAT who originally manufactured the injectors to begin with. As what you said implies Jim I think they make sure their injectors are within certin tolerances on a 1 ea. situation and not per set. I'm not sure if they actually put them in a flow bench and test each one or if they just figure if all their parts are within tolerances they should be fine.

I think the PCM is more or less constantly doing a CCT and compensating. But when you do a CCT it takes into account how much each cylender is contributing and tells you which ones aren't contributing enough or to much. I don't think it takes into account the 10% or what ever it is when actually doing a CCT. But I also don't know how far out the injector has to be before it kicks it out as a bad cylender.

[Dirk]

Originally Posted by gtspowerstroke

Injectors from Alliant actually come from CAT who originally manufactured the injectors to begin with. As what you said implies Jim I think they make sure their injectors are within certin tolerances on a 1 ea. situation and not per set. I'm not sure if they actually put them in a flow bench and test each one or if they just figure if all their parts are within tolerances they should be fine.

I think the PCM is more or less constantly doing a CCT and compensating. But when you do a CCT it takes into account how much each cylender is contributing and tells you which ones aren't contributing enough or to much. I don't think it takes into account the 10% or what ever it is when actually doing a CCT. But I also don't know how far out the injector has to be before it kicks it out as a bad cylender.

I've been trying to find out. Still working on that.

Originally Posted by DZL JIM

So does this mean a CCT done on a motor will only pick-up an injector flowing 15% (or 10% as mentioned) different from the rest? Anything less than 10% won't be noticed?
Gets me to wondering how much an injector actually needs to be different from the others to be picked up by a CCT, like cc wise...

That is why I don't think any injector under 160cc needs to be balanced. Larger injectors, flowing more than 10% apart from each other, is a LOT more fuel than stock or near stock. But, it's just an opinion.

---

Last edited by Dirk : 08-28-2008 at 07:10 AM.

[DZL JIM]

Originally Posted by gtspowerstroke

But I also don't know how far out the injector has to be before it kicks it out as a bad cylender.

That's what got me thinking. You'd have to throw together a set of AA's with varying bad parts and know what they flow and do a CCT. But in the end, other than curiosity, I'm not sure what this will tell us. Other than what good balancing will do, which we already know...