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Turbo Questions ?????????

15K views 141 replies 15 participants last post by  chrisgrimes2186 
#1 ·
Ok, i am just now beginning to read up on and research about the options for improving the turbo for better performance/response time, etc. I don't know whole lot about turbos so i will just throw some questions out there. First, i have the 02 F250 PSD 7.3l and use the truck mostly in town and high driving, i don't tow much, other than a 18' boat. Turbo seems to be functioning fine but i'm always trying to improve... Seems like i read somewhere that people have installed larger turbos on there trucks??? not sure though. What are the most common mods for either better efficiency and/or better performance? I do plan on getting a Phoenic 6 pos. chip... Should i do anything to my turbo before i add the chip? or should i change to larger injectors before the chip and do nothing to the turbo???

Currently, i have changed the air intake to the 6637 filter, added Gauges(trans, Pyro and boost), and lifted with 6" lift and 35" tires. Everything else is stock

thanks in advance
 
#30 ·
200/80 is a 200cc hybrid injectors with an 80% nozzle, very oil friendly mean no hpop upgrades and can be kept at a power lever to prevent from needin head studs, valve springs or competition style fuel systems. Regulated return is a good addition to all trucks. The 80% nozzle when tuned right (tunin is key) can be made a streetable as stock while the faster nozzle reduces shot of injection timing which is large contributing factor to windowed blocks
 
#32 · (Edited)
Oh ok, (i know you dont like to term it like this but) you are recommending the Stage 3 injector right? i was looking at the info on rosewood's website and what little info they had there look pretty impressive and it's not much more than the stage 2s - Question though, if these are the single shot style injectors and i get a get chip and good tunes, what happens if the chip goes bad and i have to send it back for reburn, does that mean my stock PCM will not be able effectively run the engine and in turn i wont be able to drive the truck???

And, does that mean that the stage 2 injectors will require upgrades to the hpop, studs and springs?
 
#33 ·
Chips dont just go bad, 160/100's dont require anything either but to get the most out of them an upgraded hpop is probably a good idea. Other injector builders are swamps, full force, unlimited. There are more but those are the ones i would use.
 
#35 ·
You dont need a HPO upgrade to run 160cc injectors... They use LESS oil then the factory 140cc spilts.
 
#38 ·
Hey CSIPSD, thanks for the clarification. BTW, it appears the links are broken. i would like to read those if you resend. So based on what you have posted if i wanted .. Say 400hp and went with the 238/80 injector (238cc and 80% larger nozzle, right) then i would most definitly need a custom tune chip to achieve that level of HP and to tell the injectors how to function optimally, right? I believe i am getting my head wrapped around this now.... BUT, what happens if i need to send my chip back to have it re-tuned for one reason or another... Does that mean i will not be able to drive the truck because the stock PCM will not know what injectors i have?
 
#40 ·
.... BUT, what happens if i need to send my chip back to have it re-tuned for one reason or another... Does that mean i will not be able to drive the truck because the stock PCM will not know what injectors i have?
You're catching on :D

This is a huge concern for folks who are constantly upgrading here and there. You can go a couple of routes: Buy the less expensive chip options and send it back when it needs a reburn. This means downtime. You can get by on the 160s but the truck runs lousy and damage is possible if driven hard. The more expensive chips allow you to update the tune without removal. You'll still have to wait for the vendor to send you the new, modified tune however.

I see you have the PHP chip as a possibility. I'd recommend against PHP if youre concerned about turn around time. They are very difficult to get a hold of plus reburns and custom tunes take too long. I'd spend time reviewing the customer services of chip vendors before making a decision.
 
#42 · (Edited)
i tried reading those links now i know i am in over my head:rofl: i should have left it alone but i was trying to help the guy out. man powerstrokes are complicated!:doh: i still love them though:icon_ford: i will have to spend some more time reading before i buy some injectors! to name a few other tuners off the top of my head
tony wildman
beans
DP tuner
Swamps
 
#43 ·
Cowboy, you know more than me, if you are in over your head ... i am drowning lol

Hey which of those tuners have the swich-on-the-fly 5 or 6 position switch? do They all have offer one?
 
#45 ·
They all offer a milti pos chip. 90% of the tuners out there run a TS basied chip, with there own tunes on it.

You can even buy the software from PHP to tune your own truck which I plan on doing in the near future...
 
#48 ·
ok CSIPSD now i am annoyed, i am probly over analyzing here but when we modify the injectors and the fuel pressure drops as the flow increases, dosent that make them less efficent? i thought high fuel pressure was the idea behind the (HEUI), high pressure oil system and was what atomized the fuel for complete burn. if we have less pressure dont we have a more incomplete burn? I dont really want to upgrade my HPOP, so what is the best injector that will give you better driveabilty, better towing, and still maintain your efficency and mileage without bigger oil ? and i know rosewood is respected but they use the "stages" who else is there?
 
#50 ·
thanks, i was planning on getting rosewood stage 2's before all of this, i thought they were the best all around option, was i wrong? would i need a bigger hpop for those?
 
#52 ·
honestly those 180/100 will be pretty oil hungry, i've already told you that i think the 200/80 is the best pmr injector. btw i did 465 with 160/100's with a 38r and stealth hpop and beans tunin. and 238/80's aren't a codes those are hybrids
 
#53 ·
Well I know just cannot remmember everything I read in my one day crash course in injectors.

I guess I can now say that I want a good upgrade where the hpop and other upgrades are not required ... It will be a stretch for injectors and chip. BTW, still might do the turbo first as you suggested

Sent from my PG86100 using AutoGuide.Com Free App
 
#54 ·
Lots of good info here.
I am a bit worried about the truck being down if the chip goes TU while I am out driving somewhere once I go to single shots.
It may have been completely isolated, but the first chip I got from PHP went bad about 100 miles into owning it. It made my truck die 2X in a row, then wouldn't run. Sent it back and got a replacement from PHP and Bill said "it's rare, but it does happen" I put in the replacement and have had no issues since. I did teach the wife how to remove the chip if she ever was stranded because of it.

I guess I just have to believe that it won't go bad once I go to single shots, so far so good!

Scott
 
#55 ·
Hey Scott, sounds like you are pretty satisfied with the PHP chip. I have read many varying stories about the service form PHP when trying to either replace or re-tune. SOunds to me like it is kind of hit and miss with people. But i have also read similar stories of the TW, TS and DP chips. All in all you like the PHP? is the performance what you expected? which tunes did you get? Also, you still running stock injectors and turbo?
 
#60 ·
#61 ·
I'm running Rosewood 200/30 Hybrids in my 2003 on the stock turbo. Jim Rosewood was a great guy to work with. I'm currently running DP Tunes on the F6. i was running TW Tunes on a 6 position flip chip but I changed to DP to get the functionality of getting tunes emailed to me that I could upload to my chip. You can look at my mods in my signature. I am very happy with my setup. I do a fair amount of towing on a 60 tow tune which is very tow safe and provides tons of power while controlling EGT's. I routinely get 14.5-15 mpg towing a 12K trailer. In my 80 econo tune I'm getting 16-17 local driving and 19-20 highway if I stick close to the legal limit. I have 160K miles on the truck and have been tuned since 40K miles. No issues.
 
#63 ·
I will say it wasn't the best experience; it took a bit to get my replacement, several calls, etc. The tunes are great, I will say that. I have nothing to compare them to, but I think when it comes time for a reburn for single shots I will try beans out instead. Who knows, I may be right back to PHP but I am going to try someone else, for what it's worth.

Scott
 
#67 ·
Sd66 is a journal bearing version of a 38r, its rebuildable, has an larger turbine wheel and a 1.15 exhaust housin. Contact beans for more info. 200/80's are hybrids and can make prolly closer to 500 but would be perfect for a 425 horse truck. I wish i had them but i got 160/100's with big oil.
 
#68 ·
Ok so at risk of being too terribly redundant in my questions.... if i get the 200/80 but do not upgrade the oil or the fuel or anything like that then i will still be ok...and that doesnt push more than my PMRs can handle? Also, going with the SD66 and those injectors is better than the 38r? (now i need to read up on the Turbos SD66 and 38r etc.) is the sd66 considered a complete replacement of my entire stock unit?
 
#69 ·
yes the sd66 is a drop in turbo, yeah those 200/80 could be an all around great injector for stock oil and fuel. i do recommend a regulated return though. they could make the power you want really easily and still not have to worry about head studs and valve train. i'm not gonna say that pmrs will handle them because i've seen pmrs go out with tunin only but i believe with good tunin you would be fine. i know you mentioned php but also look into beans, gearhead, swamps, tyrant, and tony wildman.
 
#70 ·
Cool thanks Bruce. Got a recommendation on who to check with on the SD66? for that matter the 200/80s? I've been to Rosewood Diesel Shop for the injectors, anyone else?
 
#72 ·
Bruce, you recommended the SD66 turbo over the GTP38R because itis rebuildable amongst other things. at Beans Diesel performance they show the Dominator 66 (D66)turbo is for the Early 99 model PSD. I have the 2002 PSD - which they are showing the GTP38R for my year. is there a Dominator 66 designed for my year? or would i need to MOD the D66 to work with my the 2002? I'm little confused. Thanks
 
#75 ·
Really? How detuned is it though?
 
#74 ·
ok i see, that makes since, will call them later, thanks for all your help
 
#77 ·
Thats impressive! I wish I had gone a different route instead of the 38r, but its a good turbo for now
 
#78 ·
OK now im in the right place
------------
Bruce, I just spoke to i think it was Jonathon at Beans. Due to my PMRs he is recommended against anything bigger than the stage 1s and definitly not recommending the hybrid. he is talking 160/100s stage 1s. Also they dont handle the AC type injectors if i chose to go that route. Basically he is saying that could probably run hybrids but 200/80s he would eventually blow out my PMRs ... especially with that fact that i already have 262k miles on the truck. Do you share that opinion?
 
#79 ·
stage 1's and ac's are the same thing. jonathan is just lookin out for you and you could have a nice 375ish set up with stage 1's. i already said that there is no set power limit that pmrs give out some guys are runnin 250/200's with them and some come loose with only tunin. 160's and a sd66 would be a good combo for a daily driver
 
#80 ·
... i already said that there is no set power limit that pmrs give out some guys are runnin 250/200's with them and some come loose with only tunin. 160's and a sd66 would be a good combo for a daily driver
I know you did, i remember reading it... at the end of the day it just comes down to a gamble i guess. Hell they could blow on the 160s all the while thinking i am safe. Looks like whatever injectors i go with i will get the same turbo regardless, the SD66 - And seeing that doesnt have the risks that the injectors have ... Can't go wrong doing the Turbo and chip first then follow up with whatever injectors i decide later on down the road.. I believe that's my plan and course of action.
 
#83 ·
yeah ... agreed but, for the money, i would like to go with sticks bigger than stage 1s but if i dont it's not the end of the world, as you've indicated it's better than what i have right now

yeah at 250k+ miles you might want to do the sticks and tuning first before the turbo, or maybe look at just rebuilding the turbo on the cheap first especially if the injectors are the factory installed set.
I have thought about that too, there's pro's and con's - first off i really cant do the turbo, injectors and chip all at once. the stage 1s 160s are about $1k from beans but, the sd66 is $1399 from beans, their custom tunes is $599 - I know whatever i do first i will have to include the chip ($450 for PHP, BTW Beans does not offer any reburns in their initial price anymore, he told me today) and if i go with larger say to stage 2 160/100s or so that will cost me close to what the Turbo will cost so that would be a toss up in terms of what to do first. So the price factor in determining what to do first is insignficant, so i am considering the fact that my truck runs fine right now, i dont even suspect a problem with them, even though the mileage thats on them. If they were acting up and i suspected a problem, then it would be a no brainer, injectors first. But, everything seems to run great. Plus, by doing SD66 first, this will give me more time to evaluate and decide what size injectors i want to go with and i can measure the performance increase from the turbo with stock to help decide on injectors, plus less things to consider with the turbo, no matter what injector i go with i will get the same turbo anyway, UGH just so much to consider. The pros do seems to be lined up in favor of doing turbo first....................... but at the moment i am left with the thought - :dunno: :confused: :D
 
#82 ·
yeah at 250k+ miles you might want to do the sticks and tuning first before the turbo, or maybe look at just rebuilding the turbo on the cheap first especially if the injectors are the factory installed set.
 
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