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Building a good solid tow rig & looking for opinions.

8K views 51 replies 10 participants last post by  bruce51d 
#1 ·
Hi All,

My injectors are giving up the ghost and its time to get to work. My truck in the sig is the one I'll be working on. It's used mostly for towing our roughly 10k 5th wheel to shows a few hours away a couple of times per month and trips to the lake, and I like to throw in some farm duties in here and there for good measure. I'll admit that I don't take it easy on the truck I'm usually doing 5-10 over whether or not there is a trailer in tow.
My goal is to make a good solid tow rig that's dependable and strong and will continue to be that way for quite a long time and still be a good daily driver with reasonable fuel consumption. I have a fairly limited budget so a turbo or any significant mods to it are going to be out of the picture for now so keep that in mind when you see this. The turbo is the only area I am concerned about as far as hoping to not have surge...

Parts list:
Stage 1 Single Shots (eg full force or beans)
6 position TS style chip w/ appropriate programs
Valve body for trans (JW or BTS)
Fuel Rail Crossover to get rid of dead end fuel rails (can't afford to go full reg return)
Delete the air intake Heater
Guages (boost/trans temp/pyro)
wicked wheel
boost fooler/overboost regulator
and ofcourse hutch and harpoon the tank

Already done the 6637 filter mod and swapped out the stock muffler for a Walker BTM. What do youguys think? Any of this that you think won't like playing along with the rest of this setup? Keep in mind I plan to put it to the test by loading us and our 4 kids in the truck with the camper in tow and hauling to Cali and back in the middle of July (3000 + mile trip). Thanks in advance for your viewpoints and advice!
 
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#2 ·
Sounds a lot like my set-up. I am running the Stage Is from Full Force, DP Tunes, JW Valve Body, FRx, A WW in a van turbo, Riffraff's OCR, AIH delete and Autometer gauges (although I'm switching to ISSPRO soon.

Run's strong, tows strong. We have been from CA to TN and back three summers now with 7 kids in the truck and it has been solid. I tow about 10K worth of horses and trailer as well.
 
#3 ·
Good to hear! That seems to be the way to go as far as something safe and dependable that still makes great power. I assume you don't have any problems with egt's or anything like that. I'm planning to just disable my wastegate for the moment (weld or tighten the wee out of the rod), but I'd love to get one of those van turbos. Anything you would've done different? Any surge from the turbo?
 
#5 ·
you know bean sells full force injectors right so they are the same thing, umm if i would you i would try to do some kind of hpop like a t500 or and srp1 and i would try to get a 38r. most places have them for under 1300 these days and they are a solid investment. as for tunes, i like beans tunes. jonathan is the man.
 
#6 ·
Thanks Bruce, I didn't realize that, but I probably should've. Lol! Yeah, an SRP1 and a 38R are definitely on my wishlist. Although, they will probably have to wait until the stock ones give up or I happen to have the free cash. I would think the setup I'm looking at w the addition of those two things would really make the truck solid. I know you are big on Beans and I like what I hear about them. I appreciate your input. What about the idm mod, is that really going to net anything to speak of or is it really a minimal gain. I read a few write-ups on that and I bought the correct resistor. I just have to do it. I would love to see the pics of one of the 120v idms inside just to rest assured that they aren't any different from the older ones. Other side of that is if it's going to be a waste of time, I don't want to crack open my box and risk frying a perfectly good one...
 
#7 ·
I am getting ready to do the exact same thing, stage 1's, SRP1, 38R with 1.15 I cannot wait!
 
#8 ·
I wouldn't bother with the SRP1 if you are doing stage I injectors. A stock 17* pump will hold plenty of pressure all day with Stage I singles. If you suspect your stock pump is on its way out, save some money and get a T500 (although I just read they are going up $100 after Jan 1st).

I am running a Terminator modded 17 (the precursor to the T500) and it holds 3100 psi at 45% DC at WOT in my 140 tune with Stage I injectors. The Stage Is just don't use much oil at all.
 
#10 ·
First of all, the SRP1 will have a lifetime warranty, if and when they start selling them again.

Secondly, with Stage Is, you can max out "useful" ICP with a stock pump. What the heck are you going to do with more than 3100psi ICP? That's the max any decent tuner is going to call for. Why waste money on a HPOP you don't need?
 
#11 ·
Oh I forgot if sh1tcrap I mean riffraff don't sell it then you aint gonna have it. I support diesel performance shops not truck accessory shops. Run what you want but ill take the best money can buy.

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#12 ·
Are you having a bad day? Lots of vendors sell Terminator pumps. Heck, buy one direct from Terminator, that's what I did. Got my injectors direct from Casserly too. We all already know your stance, you've made it clear:

Only reason I stop by here is to try to persuade people to support shops that I like support. Beans, swamps, full force, di, irate, gearhead, bts
The only problem is, you are giving bad information. You are not supporting "performance", you are supporting products. With Stage I injectors, the OP, nor anyone else, needs a SRP1. It's a waste of money.
 
#15 ·
Because everyone won't buy an srp1 which is the best due to money problems so I would suggest the t500 because it will support better than stock and it's cheaper than an adrenaline but they are both second rate pumps behind the srp1

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#16 ·
Have you had an SRP1 apart? What about a T500? Do you know what's inside? For Stage I injectors, a SRP1 is pointless (and unavailable). It's not about money problems. Even rich people don't waste money needlessly.

Some of us post to give the OP real world suggestions that will work without wasting money. You seem content to promote products that people don't really need under the guise of sounding knowledgeable.
 
#20 ·
But in the real world a SRP1 is not the best possible option for Stage I injectors. The best possible in the real world would be the pump that gives max psi for the least money.
 
#18 ·
Thanks Duck_Fan I appreciate the input, sorry to the OP for hijacking the thread haha. How do I know if my stock HPOP is holding enough pressure to see if it needs replacing?
 
#19 ·
You really need to have some sort of scantool like AE or a Scangauge. You are going to want to do some WOT runs and see what your max psi is along with your duty cycle. Once you do, post up a thread and I'm sure you'll get several opinions.
 
#21 ·
Well if its my money im going with the pump that has 100% new internals and will make time 647 horse at 2980 psi and 30% dc with 300/200's. When your pump can do that holler at me.

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#24 ·
i'm not a tool, far from it actually. but i'm not here to make friends i have other forums for that besides ole powerstrokesfornoobs.org. go over to the nation and look at every solid tow rig, 400 horse thread, every one of them will say ac's, 38r, srp1. and candelboxx i done forgot more about 7.3's than you will every know. i prolly have more in my engine and trans than you have in you whole truck, not includin my built bottom end sittin at the house.
 
#25 ·
Haha, this thread got outta hand quick.

My input....., Stage 1's, dont need extra oil or PSI just like Hybrid injectors. With what you're wanting on your truck(the guy that made the thread), you'll be just Fine with the Stock HPOP.
 
#26 ·
I appreciate everyone's input. I agree that if a person has the money and the inclination they should buy the best they can afford. Perfect example; I just went to our local harware store (small store, not lowes) and bought me a new Stihl saw to cut wood with. I didn't do it b/c I have money to burn, but b/c I believe that generally you get what you pay for. I wanted a quality product that will be more than adequate to accomplish the tasks I have at hand and it do the job flawlessly every time.
That said, the hpop may, or may not, be absolutely necessary. I'm sure the truck will run considerably better with the mods I am looking at doing for now. when the time comes to replace the turbo and hpop, I'm sure I will spend a little extra money to get parts that are upgrades from what the truck came with. Unfortunately, those are not in my budget now...LOL!
No worries on any hijacks of this thread. Sometimes it produces an excellent debate on a related subject and I might learn something else. Lets just be civil and remember what the thread is about. Opinions on my proposed build and if the things I am addressing will produce the result I am looking for, or if there will be issues that I will need to address that I haven't thought of yet. Thanks guys!
 
#28 ·
Bruce, I have a feeling, from this Post and Many others, that you have NO Clue what your talking about, and usually wants to pick fights. Then you get names called at you, then you get All defensive.

Hybrid injectors dont need more volume to Operate, end of dicussion!
Now, On my wish list I want Hybrids and a srp1 and 58v ficm. Both which you Dont need with Hybrids(TO OPERATE). Now with that said,.....when you start putting on mods, your after performance clearly, So when you put injectors in, wouldnt you want them to fire more Accuratly and Sharper??!!!!! To do so you can install such items as a HPOP that moves more volume of oil like a SPR1(50% more), or like an upgraded FICM, NOW lets be clear here, you dont Need the FICM or the SRP1 if you have stage 1's or Hybrids, but if you want Performance along with your injectors you can do the HPOP and FICM mod as well, but are NOT needed to Operate such injectors, but needed if you want to fully use the usefulness of the injectors.

Just for kicks I'll repeat myself, cause you sound hard-headed, Hybrids or stage 1's dont need A Bigger HPOP or FICM to Operate, But would be wise to buy to Fully use the usefulness of the injectors!

Thanks.
 
#29 ·
dude just stop, you're makin yourself sound really fukin stupid. believe me you aint teachin me anything besides the fact you can go to swamps website and say oh i want that and that and that, because one a 58v ficm is for a 6.0 not a 7.3. you say that hybrids don't need the extra oil volume and i'm sure you don't know why they are called hybrids or why they don't need require the same amout of oil as an a or b code but you still want an srp1. if you want to learn i will be glad to let you know. so once again we got a douche who makes claims that can't back them up, i've already shut one "powerstroke tech" up around here and i love burstin bubbles. go back to your superchip and muffler delete and leave big fuel, big air and big oil discussion to people who have them.
 
#30 ·
Srp1 will make the injectors alot happier then the others its not needed but would be a great upgrade for future development and current injectors
 
#33 ·
Dude I can tell you don't know anything about 7.3's just by reading your sig, h2e with beans mod? What exactly does bean do to it? What kind of pedestal does it require? And and a typo would be some like odm instead of idm because that's a typing mistake, calling it an ficm just simply means you don't know what you're talking about. So since you know everything can you explain to me why hybrids don't require the same amount of oil as an a or b code injector? I mean I just want to learn and you are apparently the subject matter expert. How come you didn't say anything to duck fan, he basically agreed with what I said about you being full of crap?
 
#35 ·
Here we go man, I can tell your a tad grumpy so I'll make it quik,

But heres what I know, I believe I know what they are: Hybrid injector uses a 530(B code) injector plunger and barrel in a 444 injector(A code)(7.3L). This allows the injector to deliver more fuel with the same volume of high pressure oil(hence not needing a bigger HPOP with more volume). Hybrids are also single shot injectors(which also is why you dont need extra oil).The final result is more fuel volume without the need for more high pressure oil volume from a mod HPOP.

Good ol' HaysKSFirefighter said it pretty well. As he just confirmed the previous posts I wrote on this thread, with his life experience.

To answer everything else: I like duckfan, I dont have a problem with Him....or you, you just seem to be onery and a jerk sometimes.....It could be just me seeing that, IDK.

The H2E will give me more air volume(he ports it I believe, with a bigger compressor, had I nice chat with him awhile back) than the other turbo's out there, being since I want more fuel.....I want more air, for many reasons, even if I have I touch of lag. Do I have to explain that too? Please No. And I dont know what type of pedal I need, thats the fun part of getting mods, I dont know everything, like you think I do for some reason.


And as I said I had a 6.0(black truck in my profile) and typed ficm instead of idm, sorry master of all 7.3L's.

Are we done? If I missed something in the Hybrid section, please tell. But I am done, and dont want to be fighting online. Thanks.
 
#34 ·
Well this thread is just full of WTF...To the OP, yes an SRP1 is a good pump, yes they will be coming out again very soon, you WILL notice a difference even with stock injectors by going to a stronger pump, you will have better mid to top end which is where stock pumps fall off. I have built a perfect 400hp tow rig IMO

Got all the parts from Jake at Irate, he will make you a package deal and you'll save a whole lot of money, call him up, if anything just to ask some questions, he wont steer you wrong.

My build:

6637
4" straight pipe
Unlimited stage 1s
SRP1
Cale Thompson tunes
WW
TM wastegate
ATS 1.0 exhaust housing
BTS VB
ARI torque converter

other supporting mods like aih delete, gauges, etc. it was a great platform, I was very happy with it.

To the guy preaching Joey's pumps, why the hell would you not pay a few hundred more for something that is so much better not only in warranty but build quality? The pump outlets are better, internals are better, hell even the back cover plate is.

Oh and don't do the FRx, it does nothing for you.
 
#38 ·
To the guy preaching Joey's pumps, why the hell would you not pay a few hundred more for something that is so much better not only in warranty but build quality? The pump outlets are better, internals are better, hell even the back cover plate is.

Better in build quality? You mean the pumps that tore themselves apart internally and pushed brass past the seals into the engine oil are better in build quality? I guess I don't see the logic. Now, if you are referring to the "future" SRP1, how can you make that assertion? No one has seen one yet. Yes, when (and if) it comes back to market, it will have a lifetime warranty. It's going to need one to cover up all the damage to it's reputation that was done before. And heck, the water pump I got at advance auto a couple years ago had a lifetime warranty. But after replacing it twice in 2 months, the warranty was basically worthless to me. That's why I have an OEM Motorcraft water pump now.

On top of all that, like I have said several times now, with Stage I injectors, more oil isn't necessary. Why would you spend several hundred dollars more for no gain? If you want to blow several hundred dollars and have nothing to show for it, I'll send you my address.
 
#36 ·
Ok you can use the search function and copy what I've posted tons of times so what is the injection ratio of a and b codes and hybrids. And what kind of mount does the h2e require? What is the ideal compressor size for a 250/100?
 
#37 ·
here i save you the trouble of tryin to search everything, a codes have a 7 to 1 inection ratio, b codes have a 6 to 1 and hybrids have a 5 to 1. whats this mean? it means that it requires that times the amount of oil as fuel. the h2e takes a t4i mount and i think the best compressor size for a 250/100 is around 66-70 mm dependin on how much you tow. modded h2e, gqssb, s467 all work well. as for what i have right now i'm runnin 160/100's, s366, stealth stage 2, bts, all the other crap, reg return, hutch, 6.0 ic and trans cooler, gauges, beans tunes, and so on. but i have ran quite a few different combos and tried a lot of stuff.
 
#40 ·
So you can use the search function as well and copy and paste, cool(thats my smart mouth, just like you gave me).:D
BUT we actually agree....WOW, that the h2e is a good combo for my 250/100.
And thats the Whole point just like you said, you've tried alot of different combos and tried alot of stuff, So why give me so much beef on this, dude. As I said I dont know it all, thats half the fun of geeting there. But the internet, mags, and talking, is the only way I have gotten my knowledge(minus 8 years diesel tech in Navy and college), SO when I give you my so called copied answer, why give me trouble. Where did you learn it or were you naturally born with all that knowledge even when the 7.3 wasnt even manufactured yet? And so much mod's and new products come out, you have to learn with the curve, through such items as the internet.
I hope we're good now, on this subject. Just dont know why it took so much fighting, just like 01crewcab7.3 said, because it does get old.
Thanks for the info on ratios though, thats nice to know, and the pedal.:D
 
#39 ·
Seems like 9/10 threads on here end up in a fight over a hobby. Seems kinda dumb. :dunno:
 
#41 ·
T500 not as superior to SRP1? That's just mild upgraded pump that has performed very well with up to 250/200's. I would take Joey's Customer service any day over stealth's. Plus Joey's T1000 will be just as good or even out perform the SRP1 or should I say the SRP1.1 that they are coming out with since so many have failed.

Bruce you need to step off of your high horse, your post are just pathetic. You think you are so high and mighty because you have ran couple high hp setups, and you like to waste your money on what your friends tell you is the best.

All aside I don't really care which pump the OP buys in the future, I just want you to know that the Joey@Terminator does incredible work and backs his products!!! The SRP1.1 will be a very nice product I'm sure when its released, and with a nice price tag.
 
#42 ·
See but you're comparing a pump that isn't available (t1000) but everyone always always says its just around the corner, to a pump that is indeed real. I sometimes suggest the t500, i suggest it before the adrenaline but tryin to compare either to an srp1 is just ludicrous
 
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