fuel feed/return question ....... - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
Powerstroke.org is the premier Diesel Truck Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-08-2014, 09:24 AM
Guest
 

Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 66
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
fuel feed/return question .......

I've been researching and looking at all the diff fuel set ups and kits you can buy. I've seen one where a guy just ran a tube from one cylinder head in the rear to the other cylinder head across in the rear( driver to pass ) and I assume feeding both heads at the front? Is there any gain or harm in this also this made me think ..... What would happen if you were to "T" out of each feed line from the bowl and fed all 4 corners of the fuel rail? Any harm or gain from this ? I am a doer, fabricator and like building things myself so I've been looking at all the ways to better my fuel system without just buying some expensive overpriced kit. Which believe me I buy the overpriced stuff all the time and would expect the same value for my work as well. Just a couple ideas that poped into my head that I haven't seen in any of my research. Ive built many 1000hp+ race cars and boats but am new to the diesel world as far as performance. Hopefully a few of you intelligent guru's will help me a little
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 07-08-2014, 09:44 AM
Compression Ignition Addict
 

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,845
Thanks: 55
Thanked 153 Times in 142 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
What size injectors do you plan on running? If you plan on mild injectors a FRX is all you need or a diy regulated return. When you get into the bigger injectors you need a full fuel system. Like a sump, 1/2" lines to the heads and a full regulated return. So once you figure out your size of injectors you can figure out your fuel system. What I'm going to do is a diy regulated return because I can get most the parts free besides the regulator. Fuel bowl delete and hutch mod. I believe that should keep a good flow of fuel to my injectors. I'm waiting to get injectors tell my system is complete. I'm only going to run 160/30 but having $400 into a fuel system to protect your $1500 injectors is a good insurance to me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3  
Old 07-08-2014, 10:09 AM
Guest
 

Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 66
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbluke55 View Post
What size injectors do you plan on running? If you plan on mild injectors a FRX is all you need or a diy regulated return. When you get into the bigger injectors you need a full fuel system. Like a sump, 1/2" lines to the heads and a full regulated return. So once you figure out your size of injectors you can figure out your fuel system. What I'm going to do is a diy regulated return because I can get most the parts free besides the regulator. Fuel bowl delete and hutch mod. I believe that should keep a good flow of fuel to my injectors. I'm waiting to get injectors tell my system is complete. I'm only going to run 160/30 but having $400 into a fuel system to protect your $1500 injectors is a good insurance to me.

I deff agree on insurance for exspensive parts. I think I'm just goin to do some hybrids 200s or so and a 38r later but the fuel thing is just curiosity as I already know what I plan to do. Just was curious as to how or what the function of these two "ideas" were . It would be quite simple to feed all 4 corners easier than it would be to do a frx or regulated return or even the bowl delete. Or the idea of just feeding both heads at the front and tiring the together in the rear to complete the circle flow of fuel?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4  
Old 07-08-2014, 10:58 AM
Compression Ignition Addict
 

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,845
Thanks: 55
Thanked 153 Times in 142 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
By feeding all 4 corners or looping the rear together you will still force air threw the injectors. Using the regulated return or FRX you allow the air to exit back to the tank and not go threw the injectors. Air and injectors don't go well together. In a perfect world there would be no air but there is little bubbles trapped in the diesel and small air leaks pre pump.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5  
Old 07-08-2014, 11:33 AM
Powerstroke.org Sponsor

 

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Defiance
Posts: 4,558
Thanks: 379
Thanked 104 Times in 99 Posts
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbluke55 View Post
By feeding all 4 corners or looping the rear together you will still force air threw the injectors. Using the regulated return or FRX you allow the air to exit back to the tank and not go threw the injectors. Air and injectors don't go well together. In a perfect world there would be no air but there is little bubbles trapped in the diesel and small air leaks pre pump.
You are NOT going to force any air into the heads. A RR return does not remove any "so called" more air than any other syste. That whole idea is just a wild guess that has never actually been proven. IF there is ever any air in a system, it will quickly go to the highest point and then get pushed back through to the tank regardless if its a RR, factory setup up, 4 line feed.

To get one thing straight before people pop off info that they have no factual data to back up, a traditional RR is still a good product. In absolute no way am I bad mouthing it. It is proven to work, but it still has its limitations.



Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6  
Old 07-08-2014, 11:51 AM
Compression Ignition Addict
 

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,845
Thanks: 55
Thanked 153 Times in 142 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Ok. So I got some bad info. I know a regulated return keeps a constant pressure to all injectors by regulating pressure after the injectors. Question to you is what makes the FRX beneficial to you fuel system? From what I've read it has small ports allowing fuel to return to the regulator while still using the factory pre injector regulator. Correct me if I'm wrong on how it works. So if there is no air in the system why use it? I know a regulated return you have constant pressure to all injectors but the FRX would still be able to starve the end injectors correct?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7  
Old 07-08-2014, 12:15 PM
Powerstroke.org Sponsor

 

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Defiance
Posts: 4,558
Thanks: 379
Thanked 104 Times in 99 Posts
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbluke55 View Post
Ok. So I got some bad info. I know a regulated return keeps a constant pressure to all injectors by regulating pressure after the injectors. Question to you is what makes the FRX beneficial to you fuel system? From what I've read it has small ports allowing fuel to return to the regulator while still using the factory pre injector regulator. Correct me if I'm wrong on how it works. So if there is no air in the system why use it? I know a regulated return you have constant pressure to all injectors but the FRX would still be able to starve the end injectors correct?
A RR or even a factory setup still maintains a set pressure.

I don't use the FRx hose. I personally hate to hose anything as it looks messy, but sometimes you have no choice. And the price csn dictate that.
What the RR and FRx does is just moves the pressure relief (regulator) to a different spot in the circuit. Instead of right at the bowl on a factory system it can't bleed off as soon as it entered the bowl. So it forces the fuel into a different route. That's how it helps to not let the opposite end injectors starve. A RR does a better/cleaner look to move the pressure relief further back in the circuit than the FRx.

Here's the biggest drawback of the factory setup. The factory fittings in the heads have a tiny ball-check in them plus a screen mesh. These dumb things dramatically reduce flow and cause air in the system. (Just like that screen on your kitchen faucet).

On a RR, a 3/8" line is used to feed the back of the heads. Which is fine in itself, but also pointless because the port in the back is still only 1/8" pipe fitting (still somewhat restricted). You can only push X amount of fuel at X amount of pressure through such a small hole. A four line feed will balance the pressure throughout the heads regardless and give you double the possible flow over a RR if needed. In our race truck, its needed.

FYI, I do have a significant amount of run time on both systems I make with different HP setups too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8  
Old 07-08-2014, 12:16 PM
Guest
 

Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 66
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by hucorey View Post
You are NOT going to force any air into the heads. A RR return does not remove any "so called" more air than any other syste. That whole idea is just a wild guess that has never actually been proven. IF there is ever any air in a system, it will quickly go to the highest point and then get pushed back through to the tank regardless if its a RR, factory setup up, 4 line feed.

To get one thing straight before people pop off info that they have no factual data to back up, a traditional RR is still a good product. In absolute no way am I bad mouthing it. It is proven to work, but it still has its limitations.



Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
That's what my brain was telling me while looking over all these designs. Laws of physics are laws of physics and are rarely deviated from. What do you recommend as a mild upgrade to Ford's factory fuel system? I would like to smooth out all the little stuff before I go to bigger injectors and turbo.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to xxxxxxxxxxxstrokincoal For This Useful Post:
hucorey (07-08-2014)
  #9  
Old 07-08-2014, 12:26 PM
Guest
 

Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 66
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by hucorey View Post
A RR or even a factory setup still maintains a set pressure.

I don't use the FRx hose. I personally hate to hose anything as it looks messy, but sometimes you have no choice. And the price csn dictate that.
What the RR and FRx does is just moves the pressure relief (regulator) to a different spot in the circuit. Instead of right at the bowl on a factory system it can't bleed off as soon as it entered the bowl. So it forces the fuel into a different route. That's how it helps to not let the opposite end injectors starve. A RR does a better/cleaner look to move the pressure relief further back in the circuit than the FRx.

Here's the biggest drawback of the factory setup. The factory fittings in the heads have a tiny ball-check in them plus a screen mesh. These dumb things dramatically reduce flow and cause air in the system. (Just like that screen on your kitchen faucet).

On a RR, a 3/8" line is used to feed the back of the heads. Which is fine in itself, but also pointless because the port in the back is still only 1/8" pipe fitting (still somewhat restricted). You can only push X amount of fuel at X amount of pressure through such a small hole. A four line feed will balance the pressure throughout the heads regardless and give you double the possible flow over a RR if needed. In our race truck, its needed.

FYI, I do have a significant amount of run time on both systems I make with different HP setups too.
Do you think just running feed lines to the open ports on the heads would be overkill or helpful in a rather low/stock motor? Or with the feed holes and lines being so small not allow too much fuel to flow ? I just think that feeding both sides of the rail would alleviate any injector from ever starving. Also how beneficial is it to remove those check-balls and screen fittings as an upgrade in itself?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10  
Old 07-08-2014, 01:02 PM
Powerstroke.org Sponsor

 

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Defiance
Posts: 4,558
Thanks: 379
Thanked 104 Times in 99 Posts
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by strokincoal View Post
That's what my brain was telling me while looking over all these designs. Laws of physics are laws of physics and are rarely deviated from. What do you recommend as a mild upgrade to Ford's factory fuel system? I would like to smooth out all the little stuff before I go to bigger injectors and turbo.
The FRx will work. Some have said they've had minor issues. But I dong like hoses.

The fuel bowl 4 line feed will be plenty for you. My truck and another have been running this kit for a year now and were both at high 500 to low 600hp range. I also am using the OEM billet regulator from Bob at dieselorings. Its not necessary, but the ford ones have a tendency to crack. The line kit is $250 shipped to your door.



Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
Garage Plus, Vendor Tools vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.

vB.Sponsors