explain the output flow of the HPOP - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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Old 04-20-2012, 05:16 PM
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explain the output flow of the HPOP

I am still working on getting my truck started and running...I got some advice from a mechanic to see if my hpop was working disconnect both lines from the head and crank it. He said if it isn't shooting out like a wild man that is your problem...well i disconnected both lines and faced them into a container to try and contain the flow and cranked the engine...oil was coming out but but barely over a trickle...it was shooting maybe 1/2 an inch from the fitting from both lines...well that is not coming out like a wild man...i read it suppose to come out at 500-600 psi...

is this correct?

as for the next step is only replacement or can i rebuild or is there something that tells the hpop how hard to flow...explain this to me if you would please.

thanks gang

ask and you shall receive... here is the link to see the oil flow

Last edited by hotairgypsy; 04-21-2012 at 02:18 PM.
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:25 PM
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First, if you plan on running that test again, have someone video it so we can see.

Second, get a scanner so you can actually see the ICP (injection control pressure) pressure. You should be around 500 at idle. If you are running low it could be the IPR (injection pressure regulator) located on the back of the HPOP.
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Old 04-21-2012, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSchuricht View Post
First, if you plan on running that test again, have someone video it so we can see.

Second, get a scanner so you can actually see the ICP (injection control pressure) pressure. You should be around 500 at idle. If you are running low it could be the IPR (injection pressure regulator) located on the back of the HPOP.
i just uploaded the video...i had it in a blue clear container to contain the oil when flowing out....i didnt want it all over the engine for obvious reasons
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Old 04-22-2012, 12:29 PM
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If your hpop isn't getting oil it can't pump it either...Check suppy (reservoir in front of hpop) first. Should be .5" from top. And scanners help a ton and can turn a PITA diagnosis into a fast and less invasive one. Also, FYI, your IPR duty cycle should be around 10 or 11 at idle. If its less its probably sticking and need a new one. If really high, ~30,40, etc, your pump is dead. And if your icp sensor is going bad the ecu just can't tell what to do, if you unplug it it will assume 700 psi and do its thing from there.
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Old 04-22-2012, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt_hawk View Post
If your hpop isn't getting oil it can't pump it either...Check suppy (reservoir in front of hpop) first. Should be .5" from top. And scanners help a ton and can turn a PITA diagnosis into a fast and less invasive one. Also, FYI, your IPR duty cycle should be around 10 or 11 at idle. If its less its probably sticking and need a new one. If really high, ~30,40, etc, your pump is dead. And if your icp sensor is going bad the ecu just can't tell what to do, if you unplug it it will assume 700 psi and do its thing from there.
here is the level check from a couple of days ago. From all my reading i get the impression the HPOP as crank puts out around 500psi of pressure irregardless of ipr working/not working, or any other sensor...is this correct. see my video is just the output lines of the HPOP at crank...I did pull the IPR and cleaned it and put back in...cleaned the contacts and coated with dielectric grease to protect the contacts.
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explain the output flow of the HPOP-hpopreslevel.jpg  
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Old 04-22-2012, 01:48 PM
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If the IPR is stuck open the pump can't build pressure. So there is no baseline pressure from the 7.3s hpop. The truck will not be able to run or idle without atleast 7% duty cycle ( how much time the valve stays closed) from the IPR, with a good hpop anyway. Also if the ICP reads too high/low the truck will think there is too much or too little pressure and reduce or increase IPR duty cycle to try to get the requested icp. So if the ecu calls for 500 psi, and the icp is wrong and sees 1200 psi but actual psi is only 300, the ecu tells reduces IPR duty cycle trying to correct the imbalance...so you won't have enough psi to fire the injectors. Google intellidog diesel and read up on " powerstroke heui injection explained" or something close to that... I can't load the video, but if you can stick a clean nail in the reservoir and it is .5 inches from the top your fine, if not fill it up and try to start again. Also find someone with AE or a scangauge and see what's going on. It wouldn't hurt to try unplugging the icp and tryin to start either...can't hurt anything and rules some stuff out...
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Old 04-22-2012, 01:53 PM
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Why do you think it's the hpop? What made the mechanic think that? Lots of stuff to look at and check before unplugging hpop lines to check and see if they squirt a lot...a lot more accurate ways to go about hpop diagnosis too...Kinda like checking compression with a balloon.

Last edited by rt_hawk; 04-22-2012 at 01:57 PM.
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Old 04-22-2012, 02:35 PM
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the reason i pulled the lines and check is the mechanic which said to try this works at the dealership and a diesel mechanic...the test makes sense to me since the HPOP is mechanically driven so it should have a base pressure at crank...when i took the IPR out i cannot imagine this thing able to take the pressure from 2500+ psi down to almost non existent...my guess would be the HPOP was putting out less than 10psi of straight pressure . I am just trying to make sense of all this stuff...going to research what you mentioned above now to see if anything makes sense...thanks
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Old 04-22-2012, 02:54 PM
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HEUI Hydraulically actuated, Electronically controlled, Unit Injector. So what exactly does that mean? It means that from 1995 through 2007 ALL Ford light and medium duty diesel trucks did not have an injection pump. None, nada, zip. This is in fact one of the HUGE factors in favor of using a Powerstroke for biofuels. It is impossible to cause a catastrophic failure by breaking the injection pump because it does not exist. Each Injector is in fact its own Injection Pump. Although the design changed a bit between the 7.3 and the 6.0, the basic concept is the same. Each unit injector basically has two sections- One for fuel, and one for high Pressure engine Oil. Unless there is a mechanical failure the two fluids should never contact each other. The fuel provided by a low pressure fuel pump(~55psi), and the Engine Oil is delivered by a High Pressure Oil Pump(HPOP). The HPOP uses low pressure crankcase engine oil and pressurizes it to between 500 and 3000psi based on the duty cycle of the IPR(injection pressure regulator) that is controlled by the PCM(Powertrain Control Module). The delivery path to the engine for the fuel varies based on year with 3 primary designs we will discuss in later segments. But once the fuel reaches the engine itself, the rest is all the same. The engine is a V-block design with two cylinder heads and 8 cylinders. On the Left(Drivers) side you have cylinders 2,4,6,8 from front to back, and the right(passenger) side is numbered 1,3,5,7 front to back. In each head there are 4 large round holes that feed all the way down to the combustion chamber in almost a reverse cone shape. Those are the injector cups where the injectors are positioned in the head with the tip actually protruding into the top of the combustion chamber. Also in each head are two passageways that run the length of the head. And here is reason #1 why these engine make such excellent conversion candidates. The fuel rail is inside the head, and the fuel system is a deadhead design, meaning there is no return from the engine. That means the fuel moves relatively slowly through the head until it reaches the injector. During that time the oil is picking up heat directly from the motor. Some may argue this point but I have tested it over and over again. So long as the engine is up to operating temperature it is IMPOSSIBLE to get cold oil to the injector. Of the two passages in the head- One is for fuel, and the other is for high pressure oil. Reason #2 that the Powerstroke makes a great conversion candidate . Precise fuel pressure is rather unimportant. Again, yes I said Precise fuel pressure in NOT important. The fuel pressure only needs to be enough to promote proper filling of the injector fuel cavity. Regardless of year, anything south of 50 psi and you may not get complete injector filling under load, anything north of 100 psi and you run the risk of interfering with correct injector operation. That leaves us with a nice liberal 50psi window for fuel pressure that will have no effect whatsoever on performance, power, emissions, mileage or anything else. This is PART 3 of why Powerstrokes make such great conversion candidates. Fuel pressure requirements are very non-specific, More than enough, and less than too much. Where the magic happens is with the High pressure oil. Both the 6.0 and the 7.3 have a 7:1 intensifier piston that multiplies the pressure of the high pressure oil by 7 and transfers it to the low pressure fuel to create a maximum injection pressure of 21,000 psi for the 7.3 and 26,000 psi for the 6.0! That is a max of 3,000psi of HPO for the 7.3 and 3,770 for the 6.0. So to recap, high pressure engine oil pushes on a piston that then pressurizes and injects the fuel into the cylinder. So the viscosity of the fuel does not change the injection pressure at all in this type of system. It could be solid Crisco in the injector and it will still be delivered to the cylinder. However the ability of the injector to refill after that initial injection is a whole other story. Now that you know the basics of HEUI injection, we can cover the three basic generations of Powerstroke.



based on what i bolded and put in red i would think if the IPR is stuck wide open it would be sending 500PSI down the lines...not enough to get things firing but for my test seems to tell me something...am i reading it wrong or interpreting it wrong????
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Old 04-22-2012, 05:58 PM
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No, the IPR closes, oil has no where to go (cannot return to low pressure oil side), pressure increases. 450-600psi is what injectors need to supply enough fuel to idle. The pump cannot create pressure with an opening. If an air compressor had a hole in it it couldn't build pressure....right? Infinite space=no pressure.
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