injector pulse width observations - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 11 Old 05-17-2017, 12:35 PM Thread Starter
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injector pulse width observations

Can anyone with monitoring capabilities (autoenginuity or other) log the following and report back?

Injector pulse width

1) in gear while coasting down to idle (engine overrun situation)

2) idle

Please note if you have a zf6 or automatic.

Thanks.

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post #2 of 11 Old 05-17-2017, 01:47 PM
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post #3 of 11 Old 05-17-2017, 03:04 PM
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1) Coasting in 5th gear .60 until the injectors start firing again.
2) At idle 1.58-1.61

'99-zf6


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post #4 of 11 Old 05-18-2017, 12:44 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sullir23 View Post
1) Coasting in 5th gear .60 until the injectors start firing again.
2) At idle 1.58-1.61

'99-zf6


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are you sure that isn't .06 ?

what rpm do the injectors start firing again? Or do they stay quiet until idle speed is reached?

Reason for asking is I am trying to determine why the injector cut-in while coasting is different between my E99 PCM (@ idle speed) and a 2000 PCM (@ 1200 rpm) when installed in my E99 truck. Both PCMs are for a ZF6.

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post #5 of 11 Old 05-18-2017, 03:42 PM
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injector pulse width observations

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenskeeper View Post
are you sure that isn't .06 ?



what rpm do the injectors start firing again? Or do they stay quiet until idle speed is reached?



Reason for asking is I am trying to determine why the injector cut-in while coasting is different between my E99 PCM (@ idle speed) and a 2000 PCM (@ 1200 rpm) when installed in my E99 truck. Both PCMs are for a ZF6.


Yep, .60 ms when coasting

Injectors start firing around 1150 rpm, which is right at40mph in 5th/overdrive (I should clear up my previous post when I said 5th gear which is really 6th, but I refer to it as 5th since I hardly use low and take off in 1st)

Hmm that is interesting.

Also I'm about 95% sure the injectors are not stock with how my truck runs. I bought the truck with them, but not sure what size without getting them flow tested.


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post #6 of 11 Old 05-18-2017, 09:23 PM
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Pulse width can vary greatly as it is adjusted thru the PW tables and many factors control PW. Things like hpo system health, injector flow, etc etc. There are multiplier table as well as the main PW table to increase PW when the oil is cold (table uses EOT). Even PW at idle can be adjusted however other tables like the Idle speed desired table will obviously have priority as the processor is told to meet a idle speed based on EOT and it will do what it takes thru adjustments of PW and ICP to meet and control the idle. As for why fuel Cutoff is different between the PCMs is not completely clear but is a good question. The processor on the newer PCMs vs the E99 seems to be advanced. I may dig around in the software to see if there is a parameter controlling deceleration fuel cutoff bit that may not be something written to the EEPROM or chips EEPROM.

Also a split shot injector needs much much more PW to inject fuel than a single shot.

It has also been mentioned that some data displayed thru the OBD port can sometimes be slightly inaccurate as some of the high end tuners have software that allows them to use a emulator chip and data log thru the J3 port.

So to add to this. I opened up the software and looked for the parameters in the calibration that would control fuel cutoff. I have not tested it out but I do believe the MFD table which is completely adjustable Is what controls fuel cutoff. So fuel deceleration cutoff is completely in the tune. This is why it will vary from calibration to calibration be it oem or aftermarket tuning.


As you can see from this MFD map. The axis labeled 0-3700 is RPM, 0.000-125.000 is fuel injected. The 0-1023 is pedal position in AD counts. Minimum pedal positionin this case for idle is 81 AD counts. As you can see if the pedal is at idle position at high RPM this area will put you at the dark purple area of the map at the bottom. At this area the fuel injected is 0.000 and is increased once RPM drops below about 1800 and slowly is increased.

That's how tuning gets interesting as the MFD map is controlled by your pedal input and RPM then MFD and ICP is used to control PW and the ICP map is looking at RPM vs MFD to control ICP.

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Waiting on installation: more fuel system parts

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Last edited by SuperchargedPSD; 05-19-2017 at 12:25 AM.
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post #7 of 11 Old 05-19-2017, 05:09 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks to both of you for the replies. Sounds like it is "normal" for injector cut in to occur above idle speed.

What PCM was the map referring to?

Can you compare ZDR3 to DAC3?

Can a DAC3 be tuned to act like a ZDR3 in regards to injector cut in?
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post #8 of 11 Old 05-19-2017, 03:19 PM
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The MFD map above is a table I have been tweaking on my personal truck. The MFD map is completly adjustable and any PCM should be able to be tuned for fuel Cutout. There may be variances how things work as the processors and such had changed. However a professional tuner should be able to answer that better as I have never messed with the MFD map in those areas that effect 0 fueling. I only adjust the top of the map where pedal input is 50% or higher. So yes it is normal for the injectors to cutoff above a certain speed and when pedal position is at idle.

Also I can not personally compare the calibration files you listed as I only have definition files for my OBS pcm family. Purchasing all the known definition files cost a bit of money and is unnecessary unless you are tuning on a professional level.

Also how the Cutout happens I am still unsure of. If you cross reference 0.00 MFD to the PW map you will typically see low numbers around 0.50 MS. In fact my calibration has 0.42MS at every intersect of 0.000MFD on the PW table. Below a certain PW I believe the IDM will not even fire but I am uncertain how that works I do believe it has to do with the FSCS signal from the PCM to the IDM. That would take more investigation and an Oscilloscope to confirm those finding or possibly high speed data logging from the J3 port which as far as I have searched is not for sale to the general public.

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Waiting on installation: more fuel system parts

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post #9 of 11 Old 05-20-2017, 05:50 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sullir23 View Post
1) Coasting in 5th gear .60 until the injectors start firing again.
2) At idle 1.58-1.61

'99-zf6


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Quote:
Originally Posted by sullir23 View Post
Yep, .60 ms when coasting

Injectors start firing around 1150 rpm, which is right at40mph in 5th/overdrive (I should clear up my previous post when I said 5th gear which is really 6th, but I refer to it as 5th since I hardly use low and take off in 1st)

What PCM are you running?

This is what I've found:

E99 PCM (ZDR3)

INJECTOR PULSE WIDTH

IDLE = 0.25

COASTING IN GEAR ABOVE 700 RPMS = 0.06



2000 PCM (DAC3)

INJECTOR PULSE WIDTH

IDLE = 0.25

COASTING IN GEAR ABOVE 1150 RPMS = 0.06

COASTING IN GEAR BETWEEN 700-1150 RPMS = 0.16

Perhaps as stated above the mapping is different, but it's annoying as hell to try to coast and the injectors come on at 1150rpms. However, the tuning is so much better on the DAC3 compared the the ZDR3 I might have to live with it.

Tony from TDP is looking into the problem as well since I have a hydra and can test any modifications to the tuning files he sends.

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post #10 of 11 Old 05-20-2017, 03:28 PM
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injector pulse width observations

Wow those numbers for your DAC3 are quite different from mine. I'm also running DAC3 with a hydra with PHP tunes. I'm curious myself now if trying different tunes I have loaded affects the injector cut in. Might not be much but wonder what kinda fuel increase might be seen if the injectors stay off under the 1150 rpms until closer to idle speed


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