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E99 Restoration - My first Diesel Project (Won't Start)

2K views 19 replies 7 participants last post by  Justin@DP-Tuner 
#1 · (Edited)
Hey everyone,

In September I bought a E1999 F-250 with 355k miles on it. It was/is in pretty rough shape and had been sitting for at least 2 years since it was last driven. I started this project with a friend and his dad, who is a mechanic. Our goal is to make it a nice daily driver, and sell it, then repeat if sucessful. Basically this is a big learning experience for me, I enjoy learning about new things and fixing them.

So far I have installed new batteries, battery cables, a new starter, changed the oil and filter, new fuel filter, new high pressure oil pump, high pressure oil lines & fittings, IPR, fuel bowl drain valve, fuel line o-rings, Severe duty air intake, fixed suicide doors that would not open, and a new end link bracket on the front sway bar.

I plan to add the following but have stopped buying parts until the truck will start:
1. New tail gate
2. New bed
3. New Head Unit with bluetooth & back up camera (tail gate has factory camera)
4. All new suspension & sway bar bushings from Energy suspension
5. New seat upholstery
6. Air suspension control and compressor for existing bags
7. Remote Start
8. Sound dampening
9. New shocks
10. New speakers
11. Updated headlights and grill
12. New brake pads
13. 4 inch turbo back exhaust
14. New tires
15. New windshield
16. I probably forgot something

At this point the truck still does not start. When cranking the IPR is at 65%, the ICP reads zero. The truck will not start with the ICP sensor unplugged. There is fuel in the bowl, but there is no smoke when cranking. Since the HPOP and IPR are new, what should I try next? Injector o-rings is what I am leaning towards. I find it odd that the ICP reads zero, could all the pressure be bleeding off because of bad injector o-rings? The injector buzz test was all good except injector #2 was slightly quieter then the others. Should I go ahead and install new injectors or inspect them first? Any help is greatly appreciate, and stick around to see how our project turn out. Thanks!
 
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#5 · (Edited)
Your going to need at least 450 -500 psi hpop pressure.
45-50 psi fuel pressure
at least 10.5 volts at cranking
good cranking speed about 150 to 200 rpms
fill hpop reservoir
any low pressure, oil pressure
check voltage to IPR, applying 12v will make it click
pull start it to save your starter and batteries
you need to get the air out of the hpop and fuel system.
do you hear the fuel pump come on , glow plugs working
even with bad injectors it will at least start
don't pull out the injectors until after you get it running and drive it a bit, don't open up another can of worms
just some random thoughts , where are you located
change out cps
good luck
 
#6 ·
I want to see where this goes. I've killed 2 full sets of batteries and a starter trying to crank over my motor after pulling the motor.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
#7 · (Edited)
Thanks for all the replies!

The HPOP and IPR are new oem parts, I really hope it isn't a bad pump. I have used all OEM parts since we started, its expensive but I want to do these projects right.

I wasn't at the shop when the HPOP was finished being installed, it was cranked a lot after that and killed the old starter which I figured I would have to replace at some point. We have cranked even more after the new starter was installed. I don't know the elapse time but we had to keep letting the starter cool off, batteries recharge, hook up spare batteries etc. It was a lot of cranking.

We pulled the IPR out and there was oil on it so we figured the reservoir wasn't empty, we have always had LPOP pressure. We also pulled the ICP sensor out and barely cranked it, a little oil squirted out (to see if at least some pressure was being created). The mechanic helping me thinks the injector o-rings are bad and bleeding off all the pressure. We were planning on putting in new o-rings anyways due to the age of the engine. I am hoping you guys can help me come up with a contingency in case that doesn't work. I read that there would be oil in the fuel filter if the o-rings were bad, is that something I should check?


The glow plug relay works, I can hear it click when they are cycled.
The rail pump hums and the drain on the fuel bowl shows that fuel is present there.


Next time I am at the shop I will:

Check the reservoir in the HPOP as suggested
Check voltage to IRP
Change out CPS as a hail mary(even though there is a RPM signal on dash)
Crank more with ICP sensor unplugged to ensure that is not the problem (I still dont understand the 0 psi reading if there is some pressure
Pray the new o-rings work

Let me know what you guys think and I will try any suggestions.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Thanks for all the replies!

The HPOP and IPR are new oem parts, I really hope it isn't a bad pump(I don't think it is). I have used all OEM parts since we started, its expensive but I want to do these projects right.

I wasn't at the shop when the HPOP was finished being installed, it was cranked a lot after that and killed the old starter which I figured I would have to replace at some point. We have cranked even more after the new starter was installed. I don't know the elapse time but we had to keep letting the starter cool off, batteries recharge, hook up spare batteries etc. It was a lot of cranking.

We pulled the IPR out and there was oil on it so we figured the reservoir wasn't empty, we have always had LPOP pressure. We also pulled the ICP sensor out and barely cranked it, a little oil squirted out (to see if at least some pressure was being created). The mechanic helping me thinks the injector o-rings are bad and bleeding off all the pressure. I am not sure I agree, but we were planning on putting in new o-rings anyways due to the age of the engine. So I am going to let him. I am hoping you guys can help me come up with a contingency in case that doesn't work. I read that there would be oil in the fuel filter if the o-rings were bad, is that something I should check?


The glow plug relay works, I can hear it click when they are cycled.
The rail pump hums and the drain on the fuel bowl shows that fuel is present there.


Next time I am at the shop I will:

Check the reservoir in the HPOP as suggested
Check voltage to IRP
Change out CPS as a hail mary(even though there is a RPM signal on dash)
Crank more with ICP sensor unplugged to ensure that is not the problem (I still dont understand the 0 psi reading if there is some pressure, mechanic claims ICP read in increments and it could be higher, its just not hitting the lowest increment. I say hmmmmm)
Pray the new o-rings work

Let me know what you guys think and I will try any suggestions.
If only a little oil squirted out when you cranked it without the ICP, your injector o-rings are likely not the cause. Even with a couple bad injector o-rings, if you crank the engine without the ICP sensor installed, you will have oil everywhere. This is assuming that you have no air in the system and the oil rails are full. The oil will take the path of least resistance to escape under pressure. The big hole where the ICP sensor goes is much larger than the gap present with a blown injector o-ring or two. Also, when you have bad injector o-rings you are normally still able to build ICP, especially when the engine is cold. With a warm engine, you will normally still see 150-350psi of ICP with bad injector o-rings.

I would double check the reservoir and ensure it is full.

If you are worried about the pump, you can dead head it to make sure it will build pressure.

I guess if all the injector o-rings are completely shot, then they could be the issue. But not being able to build any ICP at all leads me to think otherwise.
 
#10 ·
No oil in the reservoir is very likely culprit, but thought I would give a few extra diagnostic steps and questions:

You mentioned you installed a new high pressure oil pump, high pressure oil lines & fittings, IPR -- why? Maybe some background on your decision to replace those might lend some insight as to what else might have been affected?

When you removed the ICP sensor, what did you see for ICP PID? Should have gone to a non zero default PCM value, don't ask me what it is offhand, I have forgotten but I am sure it could be found with a forum search.

Might be worth pulling the valve covers (especially for Injector #2) and watching the injector spouts to see if one is completely open (maybe that quieter #2 injector is not moving the poppet valve) and just dumping oil continuously when cranking.

When cranking, do you have oil pressure on your dash gauge?

I agree with Justin, have seen many torn O-rings, truck would almost always start and rumble until there was no more oil available in the sump/reservoir. Less likely, and almost always accompanied by oil tint in fuel bowl and loss of oil.

Suppose the IPR could be stuck open, it may be commanding 65%, but it is actually physically closing?
 
#11 · (Edited)
The HPOP was replaced because there was no oil pressure and at the time, we thought that was the most likely culprit. Same goes for the IPR. That was fairly recently. This is a learning process for me and next time I will do more diagnostics before throwing any parts in there.

We didn't take any reading while the ICP sensor was unplugged, but I believe the default is around 750 psi (I have been doing a lot of reading up on this). Since it still wouldn't start with the ICP unplugged I just figured that was not the problem and moved on. I want to circle back and try that gain.

Taking off the valve covers and watching the injectors is a good idea. The mechanic also thinks a stuck injector could be the source of the pressure leak so there is some consensus that is a possibility.

As far as the IPR actually physically closing or not, it is possible I got a bad IPR but it is a new OEM part from ford. Same goes for the HPOP.
 
#12 ·
OK BUT,,, have you determined that the HPOP res is full of oil?

I'm with everybody else on this, there's no such thing as a leak somewhere that "bleeds-off" 100% of a good HPOP's production. You should see something from it if only 50psi. The only thing I can think that would give you "0" is No Oil to pump OR the pump isn't turning with the engine (drive problems...)
 
#14 ·
benodeski, I am probably saying something you already know, but that HPOP reservoir level check is literally a 5 minute deal. Pull the plug out of the top inspection port, using a good hex key that fits well. I am estimating time of course, but 4 minutes to find the right size hex key in tool clutter-box, 1 minute to remove, dip with same hex key as dipstick, replace.

Also, when you were cranking, you should have seen some pulsation on your oil pressure gauge on the dash, probably after 10 seconds or so.

These two things, mostly the first, are the first step. NoRalPh is right on with this.
 
#15 · (Edited)
There has always been oil pressure on the dash while cranking so that is why I haven't paid much attention to the reservoir, I assumed it was being filled.

I have a spare cps sensor I plan on putting in next week just in case. This truck was sitting for a while and nobody knows too much about its history.

I really appreciate all the opinions, I will get this thing running and cant wait to report back what it was. Hopefully I don't look like too much of a newb in the process!
 
#16 ·
When the ICP is unplugged , you should see 24000-2600 PSI on your scan tool . Its not really that pressure ,its an arbitrary number the computer puts in to trick other sensors that the pressure is present . If there is really no pressure or at least 450 psi the truck won't start. You might be looking at a computer problem if you don't see at least something with the ICP disconnected.
 
#18 ·
OK a quick update. Last night I went to the shop, apparently the reservoir was checked very early on in this saga and is full, I forgot we did that, when I asked my mechanic said "that is the first thing you check" and reminded me we stuck a screw driver in there to check the oil level. We have oil pressure on the dash while cranking so I think we can rule that out. The engine is full of clean oil.

We pulled the injectors out last night and found three injectors o-rings were either severely worn out or not correct. They were not pink like the others, they were dark grey/black and did not fill out the channel like the pink ones do. We cleaned up the injectors and tomorrow night they will be reinstalled with all new o-rings. We may also change out the cps just to be safe.

If the truck does not start we all agreed to go back to square one, hook up the computer and reassess the situation.

I will report back after tonight and if there was any progress.
 
#19 ·
Hey everyone, I haven't updated in a while because we hadn't made much progress over the holidays.

We went ahead and replaced all the injector o-rings because we planned to do that all along.Although the new o-rings did not help the truck start I am glad we did them, the old ones were pretty worn down. We used a computer to check the ICP reading and it was still 0 psi while cranking. So, we went ahead and changed the HPOP and the truck started last night. The first pump I got from Ford must have been defective.

Thanks for all the responses and help, I am sure I will have plenty of questions as we continue to work on the truck.
 
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