Backward pilot bearing? - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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  #1  
Old 10-28-2008, 07:41 PM
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Thumbs down Backward pilot bearing?

Has anyone seen this before?



I didn't realize it until after I'd gotten the flywheel up (and torqued, dammit), but the flywheel had the pilot bearing preinstalled... ON THE WRONG SIDE. Idiot me didn't check the thing, just saw it and thought, "Hey, preinstalled pilot bearing, cool" and bolted it up.

I even successfully used the clutch disk alignment tool to install the clutch and pressure plate; I didn't realize it until I was moving the 'empty' boxes from the LuK SMF clutch kit I bought, and heard something shift inside one. Lo and behold, ANOTHER pilot bearing:



So, now that I've installed the flywheel like this, I wonder if I've done lasting damage to either the flywheel or my crankshaft... sod the bearing, I've got an extra! I wrote to ClutchCityOnline.com, asking them, in effect, WTF (politely, of course). There's not enough depth to install the second bearing aft of the first, as they'd interfere with each other, so that means I get to remove the flywheel too. I don't know how many times you can torque flywheel and pressure plate bolts. The PP bolts had some sort of thread lock compound on them, so that's bunged up now, too. If nothing else, I think they should send me new bolts for each.

The only thing I can surmise is that someone had the kit open and installed the bearing the wrong way, then closed it up and sold it as new; whether that was a CCO.com employee or a customer, I don't know. If it was a customer, what were they doing reselling returned items as new?
So now, instead of installing the trans tonight, I got to take the whole frelling kit back off, while I cool my jets waiting for the CCO people to write or call back. Grand, just flippin grand.
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  #2  
Old 10-28-2008, 07:44 PM
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Just remove the flywheel and install the pilot bearing. Should be fine since you have not drove the truck at all.
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  #3  
Old 10-28-2008, 08:42 PM
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Thanks, BigCountry, that's what I did (see below).

Charlie from CCO suffers from insomnia, and wrote to me a bit ago:
"Nick,

That pilot bearing is just extra one. Sometimes, we do install the pilot
bearing in the flywheel. I guess we forgot to take the pilot out of the
clutch box.

Keep it for future use. That pilot bearing basically fits most F-series
pickups, including Mustangs.

Charlie"

So, they install the pilot bearing in the flywheel, but they install it BACKWARD? Are they just trying to keep us on our toes, or what?! He also didn't address my question, which was whether I'd need to remove the flywheel and bearing, since the bearing was ON THE WRONG SIDE. Fact of the matter is, I KNOW it's on the wrong side, so I KNOW I have to do all that, but I don't know WHY (why it came that way in the first place). I wrote back to him asking for clarification, as well as whether they'll need to send me new bolts.

In the meantime, nothing to be done but get ready. As such, I pulled the flywheel, removed the pilot bearing, installed the other one the RIGHT way round, and reinstalled the flywheel (All in under 15 minutes... damn, I'm getting good at this!), but I did NOT torque the bolts. I'm waiting for Charlie to get back to me again about that. If he says it's okay to retorque them, I've got digital copy of affirmation, which will hold up in court if they eventually fail. If he says they should be replaced, I have to wait until he can express me the bolts (for pressure plate AND flywheel; no sense in doing things halfway!).

Dangit, I could have had the trans reinstalled and be on my way to getting the t-case up tomorrow... now I'm right back where I was last weekend. GRR!
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Old 10-28-2008, 08:48 PM
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You can retorque the bolts they will be fine. I have worked on trucks much bigger with much more power then what your working on.

Other mechanics actually didn't even put the pilot bearing in. I had to drop the trans out remove the clutch which was reuseable and remove the flywheel. Install the pilot bearing and reassemble everything. Using all the same bolts.

Also the truck I did this on was beat to heck by the driver and never fell apart or broke anything. Just the driver didn't know how to drive and would prematurely wear out the clutch and brakes.
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Old 10-28-2008, 09:06 PM
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My personal inclination is to go ahead and retorque them since I only just did the once and they're brand new, but I wanted to make sure- not so much for the safety aspect, but in order to get HIM to say it's okay. That way, if something goes wrong and the thing comes off, I have some recourse. The only bummer is having to wait, but hey, it's midnight and I have to be up in five hours, I should probably sleep.

Mental note: don't drink 5 Hour Energy within 5 hours of bedtime... sometimes it lasts a little longer.
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Old 10-29-2008, 08:42 AM
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So last night (this morning) after my previous post, I was still jumped up on 5HE and anger, so I took the flywheel down, drove the bearing out, reinstalled it in the transmission side, and reinstalled the flywheel, but didn't torque it. I wanted to get the CCO guy's reply first.

Well, I got a reply from him today. He went ahead and stuck his neck out, and said I HAVE to use the bolts that were included with the SMF, but didn't mention sending me any new ones. Tacit approval to re-torque the ones I just took out, so that's good. He also admitted that they sometimes installed the bearing in the flywheel, but has no idea why it was on that side. He agreed that the pilot bearing was on the wrong side, and that I should just drive it out and reinstall it on the trans side (which I'd already done)

He also wrote to a tech at their company about the thread lock compound and bolts for the pressure plate, and he forwarded that reply to me. The reply stated, in effect, that the pressure plate bolts can also be re-torqued, and any off-the-shelf thread lock compound will work. I'll likely use Loctite 252 (red) just in case.

So tonight, instead of going to look at a sweet '39 Ford 9N with 5' mowing deck, I get to torque the flywheel, reinstall the clutch and PP, and see if I can get the trans back up. Fortunately, the t-case is light enough I'll be able to do that the old-fashioned way (levered off my chest by hand), since using a trans jack for such an oddly-shaped package is a real PITA. I don't know how far I'll get, but I may even be able to get the shafts on tonight or tomorrow, and be ready for a road trip by this weekend!

Thanks for your assurance, BC, it's nice to get a reality check that falls in line with one's own ideas once in awhile, it goes a little way to prove I'm not TOTALLY insane.
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  #7  
Old 10-29-2008, 09:05 AM
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Wow that sucks. You can re-use the bolts. We always do in big trucks we just put a little loctite on all the bolts
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  #8  
Old 10-29-2008, 10:00 AM
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no problem man, there isn't enough torque on those bolts to stetch them out. That is why you can reuse them.
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  #9  
Old 10-30-2008, 09:42 AM
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Well, after six hours of work last night, the trans and t-case are back in. I don't think I've ever fought a trans so much to get it back up! I had to cut and fold back the pinch weld seam at the top of the trans tunnel, because it was interfering with the bellhousing, and hammering it back afforded me another 1" of available headroom. Most of the problem was that stupid downpipe; every time I got close enough to the engine to start lining up the input shaft, the pipe would push the bellhousing to the driver's side. I should have just removed it and replaced it with one of those 3" 2-piece mandrel-bent jobbies. Putting the bellhousing bolts back in was almost TOO easy, even the top two, and I thought that was going to be the hardest part!

Almost as much time was spent putting the trans mount brace back on... why they chose to put it on TOP of the lower part of the frame rail rather than BELOW, I'll never figure, but it makes getting it in and out a real PITA. Frozen bolts on the frame braces, and I had only had them out a couple weeks before, fighting the clutch slave to get the pushrod into the pocket in the clutch throwout fork before it started extending again, wrestling with the t-case guard only to find out I was trying to install it BACKWARD... probably time to quit. I installed it correctly, put all the tools away, took a shower, and finally got to bed around 1:30 this morning.

I still have yet to torque the t-case down (it's up and has bolts to the trans installed, though) and reinstall the starter and driveshafts. That's the plan for tonight, hopefully I'll be done before midnight.
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  #10  
Old 10-30-2008, 10:10 AM
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The reason why the crossmember rests on top of the bottom framerail is. For the support would you like 4 bolts holding the back of your transmission up. I don't think so, the bolts just hold it inplace while the frame rail actually supports the crossmember.
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