Clutch problem?

[mglc2081b]

Hi All,

I have a new problem with the truck. It's a 99 F250 SD 4x4. 6spd manual.

I rebuilt the front drive shaft about 2 weeks ago. While I was under there I replace the trans and transfer case fluid. I used Castrol Mercon V as recommended.

About a week ago it started developing a squeaking noise off clutch from a dead stop. Sometimes it would want to lunge when I was at a dead stop in 1st gear. Once it lunged enough to stall the motor. Good thing I had my foot on the brake or it would have hit the car in front of me. Now it's getting really hard to shift and sometimes impossible to get out of or into gear. At a dead stop in first I can feel it want to lurch forward a little bit. Also at a dead stop in neutral, it sounds normal but when I put it in gear with my foot on the clutch, it starts a rattling sound. With the clutch depressed, in or out of gear shouldn't make a difference as there's nothing turning in the transmission.

I thought maybe the atf I used was wrong. I drained and replaced with Mobil 1 synthetic ATF for Mercon/Mercon V applications. No metal chunks or shavings came out when I drained it. The fluid that came out the first time was brown and a little milky. It obviously hadn't been changed in a long time. The second change the Castrol came out sort of red/brown. I rechecked the specification for the fluid just to make sure I hadn't used ATF when I was suppsoed to use 80w/90 or something. According the owners manual and powerstroke supplement, 3.4 qts of Mercon sythetic ATF.

When driving, it's really hard to change gears 1-2. It goes into L, 1 or 2 with a little effort at a dead stop, and into 4-5 fine. When moving the shift from 1-2 is tough and requires a lot of effort to get out and into gear. Getting into 3rd takes some effort and often grinds unless I double clutch. The shift into 4th and 5th is pretty easy though sometimes if I'm coasting I can't find a gear until I slow the truck/motor, then I can usually engage 4th.

If I rev the truck over 1600-1700 rpm when moving, It's almost impossible to disengage 1st and engage 2nd. I have to "short shift" to shift gears and that still takes some effort. Previous to the noises and fluid change it would shift easily.

When rolling up to a stop, I can't get it into 2nd or 1st until I'm at a complete stop.

I'm wondering if this is a clutch hydraulic issue, clutch issue or trans issue. What puzzles me is the rattling sound when I put it in gear at a complete stop with the clutch in, and the rattling stops when in neutral. If I were to guess, the clutch isn't completely disengaging which would explain almost all the symptoms. Reading about similar problems, it would indicate a hydraulic slave cylinder problem but I wanted to run the symptoms past you guys first in case I'm missing something.

There's no noticable slipping of the clutch under power or from a dead stop. There is sometimes a little shudder coming from a dead stop uphill.

Sorry for the long post. I've been reading the forum for similar problems and the devil seems to be in the details so I included as many as I could.

TIA

-Peter

P.S. This truck has been one problem after another since I bought it. Thanks to this forum I've found answers to most of them. I still love the truck but I don't know how much more my patience and wallet can take.

[mglc2081b]

Couple more data points:

This gets progressively worse as the truck gets hot. From a stone cold start it almost feels normal until it gets some heat in it. There's no loss of hydraulic fluid from the clutch reservoir.

-Peter

[mglc2081b]

Bump.

Anyone? Can anyone offer an opinion before I start throwing money/parts at the problem?

TIA

-Peter

[MrJohnWayne]

Honestly I'm not sure what is wrong but If you have not yet checked the slave cylinder that is where I would start. Have someone push the clutch while you watch the slave cylinder. Im not sure how much movement it should have but I would think atleast 1-2 inches. The rattling that you mention sounds like the throwout bearing to me. Might have to drop the tranny to diagnose. Could be a broke finger on the pressyre plate also. Sorry I couldnt be more help.

[mschn99]

Originally Posted by MrJohnWayne

Honestly I'm not sure what is wrong but If you have not yet checked the slave cylinder that is where I would start. Have someone push the clutch while you watch the slave cylinder. Im not sure how much movement it should have but I would think atleast 1-2 inches. The rattling that you mention sounds like the throwout bearing to me. Might have to drop the tranny to diagnose. Could be a broke finger on the pressyre plate also. Sorry I couldnt be more help.

sounds like a bad slave cylender to me as well.....it could be a pressure plate but the slaves in these are pretty common for failing.

The simplest test is this. Get it hot...come to a complete stop and put it in neutral with the cluch pedal not pushed in. Let it idle for about 3 minutes then push the clutch in normally and try to put it in reverse. If it grinds or doesnt want to engage, put a slave/master combo in it. They are available from ford pre bled and ready to install. You also need to buy the pushrod that hooks to the pedal, as they are a pain to get out of the old master...

[mglc2081b]

Thanks for the advice.

I got the prebled master/slave kit and installed it today. It's a little better but not fixed. The plastic retainer was broken on the slave I took out and the pushrod was flopping around. I hoped that I found my problem.

It's still doing the wanting to move forward at a stop and hard to get into gear. It still makes the creaking noise from a dead stop.

This is a little puzzling. The slave obviously had problems and the clutch throw is definately shorter than it was yet the problem persists. Perhaps I had 2 problems and the bad slave wore out the clutch?

Thanks for all the advice and help.

-Peter

[MrJohnWayne]

It could be a possibility

[jcs]

Check for any worn nylon bushings in the pedal to master cylinder linkage

[mglc2081b]

After replacing the hydraulics, pushrod and inspecting the pedal mechanism, I figured the problem must be in the bellhousing. I thought about it for a week and decided the job was too big for me alone on my back. I primarily work on European high performance and race cars. I am not tooled to get a 600lb transmission out.

I took it into a local shop. I've taken previous trucks there before and everyone in town recommended them for a job this size. They are good guys. Too bad they don't do powerstroke motor work.

And the verdict is....

I exploded the pressure plate and took out the flywheel and pivot bushing with it. The chunks that came off the pressure plate were grinding into the flywheel. That explains all the ugly noises.

The shop generally uses the Napa clutch which they think is a Valeo. Reading a bit on the forum, I noted others prefered the Luk. The shop seconded that recomemendation especially since I tow. The Luk is cheaper than the Valeo but it uses it's own flywheel. So the decision was use the Valeo and see if the machine shop can save my flywheel (I didn't physically see it but it didn't sound promising), get the Valeo and replace the flywheel anyway, or get the whole Luk assembly for an extra $500 and be done with it.

I opted for the whole Luk assembly. I was doubtful the machine shop could salvage my flywheel and even if they could, what would I be left with? I don't want to tow 5000-8000 lbs on a marginal or repaired flywheel anyway. So if I was faced with buying a new flywheel I might as well go with the whole Luk deal. All told, if the machine shop couldn't save my flywheel safely, I was stuck buying one.

They are waiting for the pivot bushing from the dealer now. Advance Auto Parts list it but it's a special order so I guess its no faster than getting it from the dealer. I'm having them do the rear main seal while it's apart too. If I'm spending for the labour, I might as well do everything I can and do it right.

Once again, thanks for the support. This forum is great. I've found the solution to so many issues here just searching. You guys are great. I think I would have lost my mind with the truck if I didn't have this knowledge base to tap.

-Peter

[97stroker_roalin_coal]

im thinking that maybe its the throw out beairing or somethin simple like your clutch just needs to be adjusted but thats just my theory