Sorry guys, I know there's a ton on here about these and why they happen and you've given me all a ton to look for but I still haven't found anything so lets try some more specifics of my (well my neighbor's that I've been trying to help) problem.
2002, F250, 7.3L, Auto, 4X4
My neighbor rolled it on Christmas (merry merry right?). Got it back on it's wheels, drove it home. Drove it for the next month back and forth to work with no problems. He finally got a replacement truck, so the wrecked one sat for a week. It was taking up space in the driveway so he started it, let it warm up a bit, moved it forward 20 feet, and shut it off. He had an Edge module on it that he removed that night. We went to start it the next morning, and no go.
OK, here's what I've checked. It ran until the Edge module came off right? So I went back and went over every single sensor to make sure they were plugged back in and they were. Crank crank crank.....no start. Plugged the Edge module back in, same story. I had a scanner available, but it showed no codes. It is an '02 with the trans temp gauge so the tach doesn't move on crankup.
There is some smoke that comes out the exhaust, and in desperation we did try some "diesel safe" (yeah right) starting fluid. It spits and sputters like it wants to fire, but I figure it's just burning up the starting fluid.
I checked and we are getting fuel pressure at the bowl. I did remove and clean the HPOP reservoir and fuel filter housing. Again, checked that all the sensors were plugged in. When it acts like it wants to start, it sputters really bad like the injection timing is off......maybe cam sensor?? but wouldn't that throw a code?
Anyways, I have to try and get this thing going TODAY and I would appreciate any help you guys can give me.
With your scanner, can you watch the ICP sensor?
Might have a problem.with the ICP, IPR. White smoke means getting fuel.
CPS could be the culprit. The thing should run on starting fluid. There is no spark to worry about so if it gets in the cyl, it should fire.
Sadly, I don't have access to the scanner anymore. It wasn't smoking white, more light grey, and was very faint. Where are the ICP/IPR sensors on a 7.3? Can they be cleaned?
With your scanner, can you watch the ICP sensor?
Might have a problem.with the ICP, IPR. White smoke means getting fuel.
CPS could be the culprit. The thing should run on starting fluid. There is no spark to worry about so if it gets in the cyl, it should fire.
That sounds bad man. Has it ran since then? The ICP is on the driver side head at the front facing toward the fuel filter. The IPR is the injector pressure regulator. It controls the oil pressure sent to the injectors. The ICP monitors that pressure. Nothing that you can clean.
Well, you can try disabling the gp circuit and trying a little starting fluid. It sounds like the original owner screwed some stuff up.
Ok, I didn't know if they were cleanable or not. No, it hasn't ran since the end of January since he pulled it forward in his driveway, the BOOM incident was last week. Blew the CAC boots right off the intake elbow :hehe: (they were loose though) The batteries are so drained now from cranking that I have to keep a jumper truck or battery charger on it to get it to crank over. I just don't know what to do or where to go from here, and throwing parts/sensors at it just seems silly. :dunno:
Throwing parts at it is bad but diagnosing a computer system without a scanner isnt much better. You also need to get a good charge in the batts. If the voltage drops below i think 9.6v the pcm wont work.
swapped batteries from mine to his.....crank crank crank....nothing...no life. Even with a little starting fluid...no life. Also, I don't know if it's his starter or what, but it cranks very slowly from how other 7.3s have for me, even with good batts :dunno: Anyways, checked over everything again, and I even removed the purple boots from the UVCH so I would know the plugs were fully set in. Swapped a good CPS (actually had one sitting on the shelf) into it....crank crank crank.....same story. No smoke coming out the exhaust, no sputters...nothing.
Wierd new development too, after about 10 seconds of cranking, something starts to buzz really loud for 2-3 seconds, then quit, then come back.....almost like an injector buzz noise.
Is the buzzing in the dash? I had that when I had a bad batt and voltage was low. Maybe you should check all the heavy connections like both grounds to block, starter solenoid, starter, starter to trans. Hopefully that will get it cranking better. Now, if it wont start with a little juice sprayed into it, I would think something bigger is going on. No smoke from exhaust means no fuel is getting into the cyl.
This sounds like the exact same issue I've been having since replacing the oil cooler in my 02. I have zero exhaust coming out so I have no fuel delivery going to my truck. Replaced the cmp and nothing happened. Icp has a little bit if oil on the plug but tonight I will be grabbing a scan tool and hopefully I can determine the issue from there
I will try that tomorrow. I have the batteries sitting on a charger all night so they get a good deep charge and I have a scantool coming tomorrow. What should I check I guess besides ICP, IPR...and what should the values be?
Hmm, check to see what speed the engine is cranking at.
Duty cycle of the IPR I believe shouldn't go over the 30s? (Someone correct me if I'm wrong on that) mine was up in the 60s.. I had three injectors stuck open.
ICP needs to be above 500 before it even things about starting.
The first thing I see is you say "I don't know if it's his starter or what, but it cranks very slowly from how other 7.3s have for me, even with good batts"
That's actually Very Important...
The PCM has certain prerequisites that have to be met before it will trigger the IDM to fire the injectors. One of them is the cranking speed on the starter and you Must be above 100rpm (normally @150) or it won't even try to start.
Others include things like, Voltage - over 8.5v (10v in earlier trucks), ICP pres - over 450lbs (as been mentioned), and of course, a host of other things that the PCM isn't even aware of.
Here's a paste from the old AE Forums as to what you should be monitoring;
Set up AE to monitor ICP and IPR duty cycle and crank it over. When you first turn the key on, you should get 14% IPR, and when you crank it, ICP should come up to 500 psi plus and IPR should be probably no higher than 25% or so. If IPR goes above 35% then you may have Injector o-ring leakage.
But. as I said, I'd want to know it was spinning fast enough to satisfy the PCMs requirements first.
Ok, here's what I got......a good deep charge on the batts overnight is getting me 11.76 V pretty consistently. Cranking speed gets it up to about 145 RPM according to scantool. IPR duty cycle is 14.9%, and gets up to 25% while cranking. ICP sits at 350, after cranking gets up to around 2500 and stays in that area. Then back down to around 350 when I let the key off.
For laughs and giggles we tested the PCM in a 99 that is here wondering if the "main brain" was fried and it started right up, so thats off the possibles list. It doesn't throw any codes either.
The first thing I see is you say "I don't know if it's his starter or what, but it cranks very slowly from how other 7.3s have for me, even with good batts"
That's actually Very Important...
The PCM has certain prerequisites that have to be met before it will trigger the IDM to fire the injectors. One of them is the cranking speed on the starter and you Must be above 100rpm (normally @150) or it won't even try to start.
Others include things like, Voltage - over 8.5v (10v in earlier trucks), ICP pres - over 450lbs (as been mentioned), and of course, a host of other things that the PCM isn't even aware of.
Here's a paste from the old AE Forums as to what you should be monitoring;
Set up AE to monitor ICP and IPR duty cycle and crank it over. When you first turn the key on, you should get 14% IPR, and when you crank it, ICP should come up to 500 psi plus and IPR should be probably no higher than 25% or so. If IPR goes above 35% then you may have Injector o-ring leakage.
But. as I said, I'd want to know it was spinning fast enough to satisfy the PCMs requirements first.
Ok, checked voltage while cranking and it drops down to about 9.88V and levels out. It's trying to spit and sputter now.......also, re-checked the IPR duty cycle during a few cranks and it went up to 64% while cranking after 5 seconds. Let it sit and tried again, now it stays pretty consistent at 34% while cranking.......
Edit: and on this last string, it started smoking again and smells like exhaust
ok, did an injector buzz test and heard all 8, that means the UVCH is good right?
In summary,
getting over 2000+ Oil pressure to injectors (means HPOP is ok)
injector pulse width is around 3.5 milliseconds (means IDM is good right?)
cam sensor is good (new, reads RPMs just fine)
voltage is good (per batts, jumpers, trickle charger.....)
Quick note**Reference voltage is only 2.78V??? Where does it get the reference from and could that be a part of the problem?
I got mine running but I'm not sure it will help you much nighthawk simply because mine was lack of double checking someone else's work. My main harness wasn't fully seated because it was never bolted back in after my buddy did the glow plugs.
Check your starter if its turning over slow. I have popped 2 starter bolts on mine over the years. Its not the big bolts. Its the long skinny ones that hold the starter together. Look close the last one just popped the head off. and the shank and threads were still there. The other broke at the cut threads. It allows the motor to pry itself apart and starts to bind and drag. Slowing the RPMs on start up. I think you should be around 8-900 rpm on start up. To get it rolling good.
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Related Threads
?
?
?
?
?
Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
5.4M posts
265.8K members
Since 2005
A forum community dedicated to Ford F-series owners and enthusiasts with a Power Stroke diesel engine. Come join the discussion about performance, bulletproofing, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more!