2000 F350 7.3 4X4 No Start - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:49 PM
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Exclamation 2000 F350 7.3 4X4 No Start

2000 Ford F350 Dually that I Recently Purchased.

I will spell out the issue in detail and go through the step by step of what I have done.

Please keep in mind that I have read through all of these posts and not once did I see a Original Poster ( OP ) with a similar issue follow through and confirm a fix or the sale of the truck. I will NOT sell this truck and when the fix is found I will plaster it on this thread.

at times in this post I might spell things out so a 12 year old can understand it... but that cant hurt the guys following us looking to solve the same issue with there truck.

now to get started

When the truck sits overnight it will not start the next day.
simply put.. you roll the key on, wait for the wait to start light to turn off, then turn the key to the start position and you will run the batteries down to nothing before you start the truck every time.
When you try to start the truck it blows a little smoke and smells like fuel burning. If you hook up a battery charger you simply extend your time to try and start it before the charger cant keep up with the draw on the batteries.

This issue started the day after I got the truck however I live in the Twin Cities MN and bought the truck in South Dakota and am not going to get anything out of the dealer.

it does not matter if the temp outside is 70 degrees or 30 degrees it does not change a thing.... still NO START!

now.. I went over the truck with a fine tooth comb after getting it home.
and here is what I found.

The truck will not start with chip (TS Performance 6 position chip) in stock position when cold. (8 hour + sit)
When turning the chip all the way to the right (140+ HP boost) the truck blows mad smoke when turning over and if hooked to a battery charger at the same time on 200 amp boost the truck will finally start, blow mad smoke for a few seconds, then when I turn the chip down to stock it will idle smooth.

and untill you let it idle for 10 min it is a gutless pig and will only move 1 inch in 10 seconds on level grade if you floor it. after 10 min HANG ON!!!!.. it will blow your doors off.

now... trying to diagnose correctly I decided to remove the chip.

did so no problems except the truck now requires ether to start.
**Yes I know ether is a big no no with these motors**
If hearing ether goes in this motor bothers you then bite your belt while reading this next part..

To get the truck to start AND run on its own now you need to take ether to a whole new level.

step 1
roll key on
step 2
count to 30 then start spraying ether down intake
a lot of ether
step 3
keep counting and before you hit 60 try to start the truck
step 4
repeat step 1-3 until the truck fires up
step 5
once running run your butt to the front of the truck and start spraying ether down intake to keep the truck running
step 6
once you have used up 50%-75% of the can stop spraying and see if truck will run on its own (if not keep spraying till the can is empty.. it WILL run on its own by then)
step 7
throw the can (away from the truck or bystanders) while muttering foul words


now the truck is running on its own... and is a gutless pig until it has had 10 min to warm up... then again ...like before.. hang on to your seat!


ok.. ready for the 1st curveball?

at this point you can shut the truck down while its 30 degrees outside and go grab dinner.... come back a hour later and scratch your butt for another hour and then roll the key on count to 1 and tap the key forward and it will INSTANTLY fire up and run smooth.

once you get her running she runs like a dream.... let her sit and she will ruin your day.

so obviously I did more than huck parts at the truck so here is what I did to TRY and solve the problem


tested the GPR (Glow Plug Relay)
result = no voltage drop through GPR

tested IHR (Intake Heater Relay)
result = bad - Installed new IHR and now tests good with no voltage drop through IHR

tested Batteries
result = Failed load test. Installed 2 New Batteries 880 CCA each

inspected Battery Cables
result = on Battery side cables look clean and show no signs of corosion
(have not checked Block and Starter side of cables yet)

tested Glow Plugs
result = borderline... Installed new Motorcraft Glow Plugs

as a result I also installed both valve cover gaskets

inspected Injector Control Pressure Sensor (ICP)
result = when I pulled off the plug I noticed oil leaking through the ICP and saturating the plug end. I then removed the insulator on the plug end and whipped it off with a dry cloth (no cleaner because they like to swell) and shot out the plug end with a little carb clean and dried it off and put the insulator back on. Then installed new ICP
please note I tested the ICP with a Snap On SOLUS Scanner and the ICP tested good. (readings all within spec) but I figured a leaking sensor is a bad sensor so to the trash can it went.

got the scanner out and

Ran a Injector BUZZ Test
results = while Engine Oil Temp was 32 degrees ...outside every injector buzzed quiet. First every injector buzzed then they buzzed 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 (showing me that my Injector Driver Module (IDM) is good and in working order)
keep in mind the valve covers are on but they all sounded quiet and muffled
upon completion of the buzz test no codes were found or problems indicated by the scanner.

checked the Engine Control Module (ECM) voltage while trying to start and it dips to 8 volts when engine is turning over
Now I know that if the voltage drops below 10.5 that the ECM will not tell the IDM to send signal to the Injectors telling them to spit fuel.
Now I have to ignore this because after I get it started I can shut it down 100 times and fire it up again as long as I dont let it sit overnight.

I checked out the High Pressure Oil Pump (HPOP) and there are no leaks also when cranking the ICP reads 2500 PSI

I inspected the back of the fuel filter housing to see if the drain valve for the water separator is leaking and it is not.

I replaced the fuel filter and cap, cleaned out the bowl (no crap in bowl) and turned the key on and off 2 times then unscrewed the fuel filter cap and the bowl was full of fuel.

please keep in mind I drove this truck from South Dakota and it has 100% fresh fuel in it

I started trying to start it again and no change.... turns over... wants to start but will not.
when turning over the truck is showing signs of good compression
if you do not let the glow plugs warm up and just try and start the motor turns over at 125-150 rpm
if you let the glow plugs warm up and turn over the rpm's get up to 300 at the times the motor is trying to fire in the rotation.

I checked the fuel pressure and it tested good (60 psi)

checked the Injector Pressure Regulator (IPR) and when cranking it goes to 35%-38% no higher. (does this need to hit 50%? and if so then why does the truck start with the tap of the key every time afterward before it can even warn anything up?)

Now I start the truck (with ether) and warm it up.

at 185 degrees Engine Oil Temp I do a Cylinder Contribution Test 5 times and it passes 3 times and fails cyl 8 twice (very common from what I read).

perform BUZZ TEST
All injectors fire a lot louder this time
3 of the 8 still sound a little quieter than the rest but all injectors are clearly buzzing louder this time
according to the scanner all injectors pass the Buzz Test

the truck runs like a champ.. starts every time... and outruns my buddies Jetta 1.8T

let it sit overnight and ....well... you don't want to be around me when I need to start this truck.


ready for the next curveball?

if I park the truck inside a heated shop AND plug in the block heater and leave it like that overnight it will start the next morning with little trouble.


Now here is my delima

I bought the truck
bought a wrecker body
turned this truck into a nice rig
and I live in MINNESOTA
the snow is coming
I park my trucks outside and this is my only option
I need to rely on this truck and currently I can not.


I need ideas... I refuse to huck parts at this truck and believe that the truck needed everything I did to it anyway.
When it runs cold it does not rev or lope the idle
the truck NEVER missfires and when running the truck blows NO smoke
The truck does not loose coolant and the coolant is CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN
The oil is black and is unknown miles old (changing oil and filter tomorrow)


currently if you looked this truck over you would see

glow plugs NEW / TESTING GOOD
injector control pressure sensor NEW / TESTING GOOD
fuel filter + cap NEW
injector driver module TESTING GOOD
fuel injectors TESTING GOOD. VERY QUIET COLD AND LOUDER WARM
injector pressure regulator TESTS 35% WHEN CRANKING (BAD?)
fuel pressure TESTING GOOD = 60 PSI
batteries NEW / TESTING GOOD


any ideas you may have I am all ears
as of 30 days ago I knew NOTHING about this truck or Diesel motors all together. I am new to Diesel Repair and new to the 7.3

However I already love this truck and am THRILLED I did not go for one of the "newer fords".

Thanks in advance!

Phil
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:16 AM
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**Subscribing**

I'm having almost identical problems. In addition to the list of parts you have installed I have done the same plus 8 new injectors. My symptoms are identical even the same use of ether lol. I will let you know of anything I find out.
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Old 12-01-2012, 01:24 PM
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If you haven't yet, check your ground cables at the engine. I checked mine today and the driver side one was broke. It was just barely hanging on. I replaced it and my batteries are showing much weaker now. (Possibly that I was just reading off one good battery before, and not charging it) it's charging now so unsure if it fixed it or not.
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Old 12-01-2012, 01:45 PM
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"If you haven't yet, check your ground cables at the engine."
will do

I also changed the oil today with the MOBIL 10w30 Full Synthetic.

It took me an hour today to get the truck started... Battery Charger, Block Heater and Ether

I will bring the camera with me tomorrow to record what it is doing and give it a go trying to start it.

Figure going with a thinner oil and Full Synthetic will be easier to pass through the injectors if the oil condition and weight are factors in the no start condition.

and yes PLEASE let me know what you find with your truck if you find a fix.
I swear that I will plaster a fix here if I find one.
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Old 12-01-2012, 01:58 PM
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I know it's a looong shot, but a fauly CPS can cause all kinds of funky things to happen. Otherwise, I don't know what to tell you... seems like you've covered everything.

Another thing you could do, is pull the chip off the ECM and see if that solves anything. A dirty connection can cause all kinds of mayhem as well. It doesn't cost ya anything, so it might be worth a shot.
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Old 12-01-2012, 02:32 PM
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when I plug in with the scanner and I turn the engine over the Cam Position Sensor (CPS) is giving a RPM reading.

also when turning over the tach gauge rises in RPM.

so I would have to say the CPS is fine.

also after getting the truck running remember I can shut it down and it will start problem free until it "cold soaks" for around 8+ hours

if I only let it sit for 2-3 hours it will fire up just fine.


and the TS Performance 6 position chip is removed from the ECM currently and I will not be re-installing it until this problem is resolved.
ECM wiring is in great shape and free of corrosion.
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Old 12-01-2012, 02:45 PM
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Also I ohmed out the injectors and wiring at the IDM.

from the plug end that attaches to the IDM the wires, valve cover wiring and injectors all connected ohm out at 3.4 - 3.6 (acceptable range 2-4)

so we can rule out any wiring issue between the IDM and the Injectors

p.s. if anyone is looking for the IDM on there truck take the plastic front drivers wheel well out and reach up inside the drivers front fender behind the F350 badge.
remove the 2 10 mm bolts and pull down and the clip will let go.

Identafix and Mitchell both say it is located "bolted to the frame under the hood on the drivers side" and they could not be more wrong.
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Old 12-01-2012, 03:26 PM
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"I checked out the High Pressure Oil Pump (HPOP) and there are no leaks also when cranking the ICP reads 2500 PSI"

Did you check the HPOP level. Maybe the oil is draining back down to the sump. Kind of a long shot but at this point worth a shot?
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Old 12-01-2012, 03:30 PM
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I left my truck on charge while I went out to eat so I may know something later tonight. That ground cable looked fine but I wiggled it to see if it was loose and it was broke and just sitting there.

I have not ohmed my IDM I will try that tomorrow.

My truck is an 02 I've read the tach movement for the cps means nothing on them? Although my auto enginuity is reading engine rpms. Plus I'm on my 3rd cps lol first thing I did was replace the fairly new one when it started acting up. I tried both a black cps and a grey Delphi cps with no difference.
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Old 12-01-2012, 03:30 PM
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I am having a problem such as this with mine. My GPR was bad, change out with a stancor. Checked the glow plugs, one bad one questionable, changed out the glow plugs and UVC wiring harness. Had oil in the ICP, changed it out. Opened the drain valve at the fuel filter and turned the key on, got fuel. Have not made it in to my BIL shop to put on the scanner to check pressure readings yet. Have you checked the oil level in the HPOP before trying to start for the first time? I have not either but just wondered if the level was correct. I will have to do that in the morning. Keep us up dated and I will let you know if I come up with anything else.
Thanks
Dave
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