Rough running, p1280, motor swap, hpop, icp, or ipr? - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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Old 07-22-2012, 03:20 PM
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Rough running, p1280, motor swap, hpop, icp, or ipr?

01 f350, had bad compression in a few cylinders and just bought a used motor with 180k from a wrecked truck that supposedly ran. I had a mechanic put new rings and bearings while we had it out. Ever since initial start up its been running rough, sputtering, stalling, cackling. It throws codes 1211 and 1280. I replaced the icp a few months ago, swapped it to the new motor, in the swap process I broke the ipr, bought a new one from advance auto. I did a contribution test, everythings good. When starting it takes alot of cranking before it finally fires, even after its just ran a few minutes. I put a gauge on the fuel bowl and im getting 70-80 psi. I used the existing hpop from the used motor in hopes it is good. The scanner says the oil pressure is low or not controllable. How can I rule out ico, ipr or hpop? Could I have installed the ipr wrong? Theres no oil on the icp and if I unplug the wire the cel comes on, doesnt seem to run any differently. When I unplugged the ipr wire it ran the same for a lil bit then it stalled and wouldnt restart. I pulled the plug and checked the oil level and it appears good. It sometimes acts like its running out of oil, or during start up takes a while to achieve oil pressure. Normally once it fires it cackles really loud like its running out of fuel and idles high, but it doesnt miss and the throttle is very responsive, sometimes itll run like that for a few minutes, but sometimes the cackling will go away, idle drops to 700 and it runs smooth, but throttle responce it sluggish. The cel doesnt always come on right away, it usually takes a few seconds to a minute. It has an inline fuel filter with the intank screens removed so based on that and the psi readings at the bowl ive ruled out fuel delivery problem. My next step is to remove the valve covers and make sure the oil drain plugs for the rail and not leaking. I may be wrong, but in theory the oil pressure lowness may be due to a bad hpop, but if the hpop is good and the ipr is bad or the icp is bad it will affect oil psi. Is it possible the nonford aftermarket ipr is the problem? I need help!
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Old 07-24-2012, 05:41 PM
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You need to check for a P1211 code: ICP 410 psi higher or 280psi lower than desired for seven seconds. ICP feedback should be .20-.25 volts KOEO and a min. of .83 volts min. while cranking.
This P1211 code is caused by:

Failed or sticking IPR
Failed or weak HPOP
Any leak in the HPOP oil system (o-ring, stuck injector, etc.)
Low fuel pressure (rare)

P1280, P1281, P1283
all related to ICP also. If the SES light is on and these codes are present the ICP reading will not be accurate as the PCM is in a default ICP value. Shorts in the IPR wiring or a PCM problem may be the problem also.

When using a scan tool the ICP Pressure reading is not a direct reading. It is a PCM calculated value using throttle position and RPM. ICP voltage feedback is the true indication. Good Luck.
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Old 07-29-2012, 09:37 PM
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Im also getting 1209 and 1211 , its got a new icp and ipr, still stuck, hopefully this week ill throw together a gauge and read the hpop psi, should I use the icp fitting to hook up the gauge? Is it possible too much fuel psi could cause this? Im getting 90, the regulator broke last year and I jerryrigged it, I had it set to around 70, but I cant hear it open and relieve the psi. Also the psi drops to 0 if the keys off for 10 min or so, should it drop that low so quickly? Maybe I have a leak somewhere
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Old 07-30-2012, 09:26 AM
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First off, your fuel pressure is too high. Anything above 60 not required and will make the injectors rattle. Don't let them tell you that the fuel pressure is OK at anything above 60. I've been there even with big hybreds. Get a RiffRaff regulated return system installed. Problem solved and better response also. No dead headed fuel in heads. Easier on your pump also.

What is your ICP voltage KOEO and during crank and idle? Check your IPR duty cycle also? ICP voltage should go to zero when you pull the connector and it goes into "limp home" mode. A real HPOP gauge will be very useful--the AE pressure is PCM calculated, not actual. If you determine that the pressure is adequate, start looking very closely at the ICP connector. Once they have had oil in them they deteriorate. I just went through this same issue. Ford has a replacement pigtail PN 5C3Z-12224-A. Proud of it too at $83. I chased this intermittent spook for two weeks on one. Replaced the connector-problem gone, but only after buying a new PCM. Check the connector and wiring on the IPR also. That connector has a compound in it seperating the terminals which gets like putty. Good luck. Also, Google Dieselmann's Tech Pages--good trouble shooting info. GOOD LUCK
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Old 07-31-2012, 07:22 AM
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I dont think the fuel pressure being high is the issue, i have another sd that runs around 90 with no problems and i dont know the theory of why it would make the injectors rattle, its one of the quietest sd ive heard. As for the icp, how do i check the voltage without a scanner? im reading the codes with a superchip. theres three wires on the icp, which do i use if using a volt meter? i changed the icp from a truck with a known good icp, no change. if i disconnect the icp wire, it starts "loping" and the throttle is very responsive. if i disconnect the ipr no change in cackle, but will only run 10 or 20 seconds befoer it stalls and will not start unless reconnected. there is a mushy mess from the ipr plug, what will that effect? it appears to be connected properly
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Old 08-01-2012, 04:59 AM
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I've been doing this for buku years and have found no reason to run fuel pressure above the 60# mark that Ford designed for, even with built engines. I've seen some rattle and some don't. My 250/100 Swamps are real loud at 60#. At 56/57# they quiet right down. The high pressure will shorten the pump life. The main thing is to see no or little drop at WOT. A regulated return system eliminates the dead headed fuel, moves air out, is easier on the pump and has better throttle response. If you want to go to a full up fuel system it is quite easy. I can show you how to eliminate the Ford filter bowl, install dual Walbro pumps, put spin-on filters underneath and install a regulated return. The engine is so much easier to work on with that clunge filter gone.
Unplugging the IPR should kill the engine. I have not seen one lope when the ICP is unplugged. They usually revert to "limp home" mode which normally does not make much power. You need someone with an analyzer to see the voltages from the ICPand the IR duty cycle. I use an AE setup. Also, I would suggest that you borrow another PCM and see if same issues occur. Likely not the problem but I have not seen one "lope" when the ICP is unplugged.
Good luck
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Old 08-01-2012, 02:06 PM
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I have kinda half of the regulated return, I looped the plugs in the head but still have the stock regulator. Heres the latest, I took the hpop reservoir off and cleaned the screen filter and removed the ipr to inspect for debris. After putting it together it ran pretty good, still had a hard start but theres plenty of air in the system to get out, I ran it for a few minutes, no cackle, no cel, definite improvement. I took for a test drive, ran great about 3 miles, a few times I got on the throttle pretty good and there was a hesitation at 2500 rpm but didnt take long to go away, after driving heavy for a few minutes ibwas cruising at 50, slowed for a red light and it stalled, another hard start and it was running again, but sluggish and wants to die if close to idle, cel on again, stalled a few times, made it home, got code 1209, 1211, cleared the codes, another hard start, seemed to run better, I mowed my yard while it idled, no cel and smooth idle, so I decide to give it a steady 1500 rpm run for an hour, ran great, as soon as I let off the throttle it died and now wont start, im wondering if heat might be an issue cuz it was hot as my girlfriend, ill retry starting tomorrow once its cooled off, after about 5 lond tries I gave up, starters are expensive lol thanks again guys for the help
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Old 08-01-2012, 02:14 PM
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Roaddog, why did you have to replace your pcm? What were your symptoms?
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Old 08-01-2012, 05:16 PM
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Got a lik antsy and couldnt wait till tomorrow. I checked the hpop reservoir, it was low, added about 250 cc of oil, it finally started, but took about 15 to 20 seconds of continual cranking before it started and it wasnt like all the sudden it fired, it gradually built up enough speed to hit and I had to give it a lik throttle. It ran well, revved up to 1500 held for 20 sec, then revved up to 2000, around 1900 it started yo miss, jump, stuttrer, whatever and rpm fluctuated between 19 2100 rpm, cel came on, continued to run fine except around 2k, I turned it off, had 1211 code, now wont restart again, even after several long cranks, im stumped, I might just buy an hpop... Another thing I noticed, the oil psi doesnt register until after about 5 seconds of cranking, is that normal?
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:53 AM
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Any luck with the truck??? Any updates??
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