Ring damage?? - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
Powerstroke.org is the premier Diesel Truck Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-11-2007, 08:52 AM
Member
 

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 35
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Ring damage??

Hi, first post here. I'm a competent gas motor mechanic but new to diesels. I've been reading the forum for about week. I just bought a '99 F250 w/ 7.3 PS. Here's my story:

Bought the truck off EBay, so no chance to check it out before purchase. Asked questions and got all the right answers. Looked to be worth the price of $8500. Lifted 8" with 37s, straight body, no rust. 222,000 miles. Supposedly rebuilt turbo and some other motor work.

Wrapped up the deal and hired a transporter to bring the truck to me on the east coast. The economics made sense to ship vs. going there and driving it back. And this is where the issues begin.

The truck ran and drove onto the trailer when picked up. The transported called and told me the truck wouldn't run when he tried to move it off the trailer. He put in fresh diesel but it wouldn't fire. When he arrived here to drop it off, his father who was a supposed Ford diesel mechanic said to use starting fluid to see if it will run. When it was on the trailer he shot the fluid into the motor and it fired. He continued to squirt the fluid in the motor for about 1-2 mins while it ran, using some revving as he squirted the fluid. After the fluid was burned off, the truck died. Obviously a fueling problem. I had the truck towed home and started to try and diagnose the problem. I noticed the tach wasn't registering when it ran on the fluid so I figured it was the CPS. After some other diagnosis I figured to start simple and check the fuses. Fuse #30 was blown so the ECU was not getting any power. Further reading on this forum led me to the fuel heater element. Unplugged the fuel heater and the fuse stopped blowing. Put some cables on it and it fired right up. No fluid used.

It seemed to run ok but billowed white smoke for about 2-3 mins until it got warmed up. After driving it for a couple of days it started to form a miss and it was way down on power. Still billowed white smoke at start up but once it gets warm, it doesn't smoke at all. Still way down on power and feels like it's missing. I noticed it was drinking oil. It used about 4 quarts on a 300 mile drive. The miss seems to be getting worse and it's futher down on power. I can hear a ticking sound under the hood like a gas engine that has a cracked header. On cold start up, it knocks pretty bad but when it warms up the knock goes away. It starts fine every morning even when it was 11 degrees here last week. It idles smooth and sounds healthy except under heavy load/acceleration. It's still drinking oil. I repaced the fuel filter twice. The original filter I took out looked like a sewer with brown crud all over it. I ran about 100 miles on the new filter and changed it again just in case there was still crud in there. The second filter came out clean but I replaced it anyway just in case. I also changed the oil and filter with Rotella T just in case some bonehead had used the wrong oil.

So right now, it still starts right up even on cold-cold mornings, idles fine both cold and warm, knocks like a mofo when cold, billows white smoke for about 1-2 mins on cold startup, uses an unreasonable amount of oil and feels down on power and sounds like it has a miss on acceleration, and has a ticking sound under hard throttle. Also when I let off the throttle, there's a hissing sound around where the turbo is. I thought this might be normal wastegate sound discharging the pressure.

Reading the forum, this could be one of many things but I fear it's rings from the bonehead transporter running the motor on starting fluid for more than a minute. Other causes I guess could be bad injector o-rings or a bad injector. If I understand the answers here correctly, both would cause excessive oil consumption.

When I changed the oil, it did have a diesel smell but didn't appear to have a noticable amount of fuel in it.

I know it's hard to diagnose these things over the internet but any advice/opinions would be appreciated.

Thanks

-Peter
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 02-11-2007, 09:08 AM
duct tape & zip ties

 

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Willis, MI
Posts: 10,761
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Send a message via Yahoo to bigcountrysg
Dang man sorry about your luck. Welcome to the site alot of good people and info on here.

For your truck problem, I would have it looked at by a mechanic and then send the repair bill to the delivery company.

Serisously though I would start with the simple things first. I would pull the injectors and check and replace the o-rings on the injectors. I would do a compression test on all cylinders this would tell you if you have a cylinder with bad rings. I would also get the injectors tested you may have a bad one. I believe there is a way to test them yourself but I don't know how. If your compression test is with in specs then I would put everything back together. The blowing of fuse 30 sounds like the fuel heater is shorted out. I would test this and replace it. The little bit of white smoke when the engine is cold is typical, my truck does it too. It clears up as the engine gets warm.
The knock you are hearing could be a missing or dead cylinder. I hope I have helped you out. Others I am sure will chime in and give there thoughts on it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3  
Old 02-11-2007, 09:13 AM
Nuckin' Futz


 

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 700
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
if it doesn't have any codes and you already changed out the cps and fuses i would say it is one or more of the injectors. I think the white smoke may have something to do with your glowplug system. have a scan tool hooked up to it and do a cylinder contribution and injector buzz test. THese will tell you if your injectors are bad. to check for ring health take the 710 (OIL) cap off while the engine is running and observe the blow by...now PSD's have blow by and to a gas mechanic it will seem excessive but you will know if it is way to excessive. Have your oil tested to see if any of the nasty combustion gasses are getting past and into the oil pan. If you put the truck on the scan tool it will tell you about whether or not your glowplugs are bad and about your injectors. Give these a try and let us know what happens with it
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4  
Old 02-11-2007, 09:20 AM
Banned
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: central coast, california
Posts: 0
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
first of all some white smoke on start up is normal...but obviously billowing it isnt. Sounds to me like you could have one or more injectors that have failed....and the using oil could most definately be injector o rings. Pull the oil cap off with it running....put your hand over the cap....and see how hard the motor pushes back against your hand when its sealed.....it should not push enough to be able to really notice unless your REALLY trying to feel it. That would indicate blow by and possible ring damage. The odds that the starter fluid did ring damage that would cause what you are describing on one time of use is slim.... I would test like this....

First of all do the simple blow by check i described....
the injectors need to be checked with a scan tool...both a "buzz" (electrical) test and a cylender contribution while running.....bad injectors will need to be replaced....make sure to remove the valve cover and check the under valve cover harnesses before condemning an injector that tests bad
I would re o ring all the other inectors....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5  
Old 02-11-2007, 09:23 AM
Jon
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Marc

I couldnt of said it any better! Your still pretty sharp in your 'ol age!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6  
Old 02-11-2007, 10:03 AM
Compression Ignition Addict
 

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: phx az
Posts: 480
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Send a message via AIM to Albie30 Send a message via Yahoo to Albie30
I was told that ether in a diesel is a big no no So couldnt the lack of lubrication crack a ring ??
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7  
Old 02-11-2007, 10:07 AM
Banned
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: central coast, california
Posts: 0
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Albie30 View Post
I was told that ether in a diesel is a big no no So couldnt the lack of lubrication crack a ring ??
it is a big no no...and yes you could crack a ring or damage a piston with it...but usually that comes from prolonged use. It is very possible for just one shot to cause that...but also if it was down on compression i would expect it to start hard. The fact that hes getting above average noise level injector knock also leads me to think injectors over rings. A manual compression test could also be in order to verify there is no ring damage...particularly on any cylenders that come back weak on a cylender contribution test....its not a science to predict where and what damage ether will cause...or how much will actually cause damage....but it is MUCH too combustable to be using in a diesel..thats for sure.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8  
Old 02-11-2007, 11:33 AM
Member
 

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 35
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Thanks for all the replies. The oil usage really had me worried about ring damage.

I went out and did the blowby test Marc suggested and I get little or no pressure from the oil filler. I rested the oil filler cap on the filler neck and revved it up. If I read what you suggested right, any significant blowby should have blown the cap off. I would gleen from that there isn't any ring damage. Phew!

Injector problems/replacement I can handle. Being a relative novice at diesels I should probably get this to an expert to perform the injector buzz and contribution tests.

I'd planned on buying a programmer at some point. If a programmer (Bully Dog etc) are capable of performing tests and extracting codes, I could go buy one. Recommendations?

Baring that, can anyone recommend a competent shop in the Wilmington DE/Philadelphia area? Is there an area on forum for user recommended shops?

Thanks again for all the advice and encouragement. I'm feeling better about this truck now. I can't wait to get it running well.

BTW, will I do any further damage driving it for a week or so until I can get to a shop? I drive about 20 miles per day to and from work. My hours are nuts for the next 2 weeks until I can get it to a shop.

-Peter
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9  
Old 02-11-2007, 12:00 PM
Premium Member
 

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada
Posts: 4,507
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Ouch, sorry to hear about the problems with the new truck, you have the A team working with you so i'll just say Welcome to POWERSTROKE, and I hope you get it all fixed up OK.

Member approved repair facilities

Above is the link to Members approved repair facilities, hope it helps.

Gord.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10  
Old 02-11-2007, 06:49 PM
Nuckin' Futz


 

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 700
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
hey lads just to clarify...starting fluid is bad on diesels which utilize glow plugs or an intake heater...it is bad for them because when the ether gets into the cylinder during the intake stroke...it touches the hot glow plugs and ignites that cylinder very prematurely and can cause severe damage...On bigger diesels that use it as the main starting method you can still cause the engine to ether lock (we call people who hold the ether start button too long without cranking the engine and lock it up, ether bunnies as the shop).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
Garage Plus, Vendor Tools vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.

vB.Sponsors