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Old 05-08-2013, 06:06 AM
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Intermittent "missing"

96 F350 PSD 187,000 miles

So heres the story: In January, I had a local shop with a solid rep replace the fuel supply pump (was leaking) GP's, VC gaskets, UVCH's and due to the #6,8 harness having a melted connection, they spliced in an aftermarket pigtail as well. Now when I dropped the rig off, it ran solid with the exception of hard starting due to 7 out of 8 GP's having gone bad, yet the shop told me that a P1298 code showed up and my IDM was failing. I jumped on here to double check that code and found that it could be a number of things and even the shop said it could be the melted harness and that they would check for codes again after they fixed everything.
So they button it all back up and they said it felt like it was "missing" and a P1668 code came up and when they did "pinpoint tests" the found the IDM was indeed failing. I had a spare 110 IDM so i told them to not replace it and I would do it. I go to pick the rig up and she runs great...after a few hundred miles, the "missing" starts...goes away and comes back intermittently...it can be cold or hot, right at startup or after a 4 hour trip. I finally had enough and swapped in the spare IDM and the problem still exists. I went back to the shop and bought the IDM they would have installed thinking that perhaps my spare was flawed as well, yet the one from the shop doesnt fix it either.
Then i change the CPS because i thought the new one (dark blue) i put in last summer could be taking a crap but that doesnt fix it either.
So, next up is replacing all the NEW wiring and see what that does, but I wanted to get your guys' take on if an injector would go bad coincidentally at the same time as all the wiring gets replaced?
All your help is appreciated! Think its time to buy AE...
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:14 AM
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Bad GPs can draw excessive current through the harness thus causing a melted UVCH again. When it "misses" does it feel like just one cylinder every once in awhile or does it seem like several cylinders "miss" for a couple seconds and then return to normal?

Things you can try at home:
-with the motor running wiggle the main harness every couple inches from end to end to see if the motor repeats the problem. Diesel fluid is corrosive to wiring insulation and your past fuel leak _might_ have eaten through some of the wires under the fuel bowl causing them to cross short now and then. The wiggle test will give you a general location to start opening the main harness and looking around.

-Pull the VC and start the motor (unlike gassers this motor does not spit oil all over the underside of the VC area) after getting the motor warm. Watch the injectors. You are looking for consistent oil from the injector HPO exhaust port from one to the next and looking at the bases of the injectors see if you can spot weeping oil from the injectors. The weeping would indicate a possible bad o-ring for that injector that the HPOP is trying to cover up. While the cover is off check all connections and keep in mind that oil in a connection means a bad connector and possible short to ground at that spot.

The 1298 is intended to indicate a bad IDM but also consider "what would make the PCM to think the IDM was bad". Same with the 1668. Look for dirty connectors on the PCM and IDM and clean them with electrical cleaner. Both sides (male end on the IDM/PCM and female end on the harness). look for frayed wires and possible rubbing/shorts to ground. Look for loose wires (possible bad ground wire). Because the problem presented with both IDMs it is not likely that there is water in the IDM but doesn't hurt to open it up and clean it out. Scrape all the old sealant off and use new sealer to close back up. The connectors should be very clean with no water or oxide evidence.


Last edited by BigFuel; 05-08-2013 at 08:42 AM.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:45 AM
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The miss feels like only one cylinder as opposed to involving two and it sounds like a minor exhaust leak coming from the drivers side of the engine when its missing. Ive had a VC connector go bad before where two injectors werent operational and this is nowhere near as violent of a condition. The rig is driveable yet not running correctly. Ive read on here where other folks had misses that popped up after replacing the fuel supply pump and I'm wondering if that could be an issue as well?
Also, Ive had a long standing issue with sluggish re-starts after the rig has been running for an hour or more, which may be an IPR issue? would a bad IPR produce a "missing" injector?
At this point, I need to get AE and rule out as much as possible, but in the meantime, all suggestions are appreciated, including what AE version i need to get. Thanks!
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:04 AM
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Also don't overlook a used MT2500 on EBay. if you are patient you can snag a complete kit in the $200 range.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:21 AM
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Thank you for the suggestion, although I just purchased AE Bundle with the Ford enhancement, so hopefully it will all be sorted out soon. Look forward to seeing actual live data and to stop guessing whats wrong and throwing parts at the problem. Im certain i will have more questions in due time as to what the software is capable of and any suggestions ahead of time will be most welcome! Again, thank you for your time.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFuel View Post
Also don't overlook a used MT2500 on EBay. if you are patient you can snag a complete kit in the $200 range.
Not to hyjack the post but, how does the MT2500 compare to the Genisys EVo 4.0? Is it better? i have the EVO, learning how to use it but the 2500 is a lot cheaper.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:43 AM
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I have zero experience with the EVO. The MT2500 is cheap because it has been out of service in dealerships since the early 2000. With more and more dealerships going out of service people are going in and buy up leftover stock on shelves. These people are finding unused brand new MT2500's in old stockrooms and selling them cheap on EBay. The MT2500 was made by Snap-On for dealerships in the mid/late '90s for all vehicles with the correct cartridge installed. Yes, the MT2500 is old tech but it was more advanced than our trucks at the time. No fancy screens and some, I don't think, even had backlighting but it could run every test on our trucks and transmissions. So as far as getting the job done is concerned the MT2500 is a less expensive way to go. The scantool that replaced the MT2500 looks VERY similar to the EVO.
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Old 05-08-2013, 03:16 PM
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Heres an update:
while the engine was running, i unplugged the pigtail that had been spliced in for the melted one to #6 and #8 and there was no change at all in the way the rig ran. Soooo...obviously, there has to be something wrong with that splice of the wiring under the VC, correct? And being that this problem only came about after the splice and new VC gaskets and UVCH's were put in that pretty much narrows it down to one of those components, right?
That being likely, is there a way to eliminate it being either the pigtail/spice or UVCH without taking the VC off. I just dont want to replace brand new parts with more brand new parts unless there is no other way to go about it.
Thanks!
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Old 05-08-2013, 04:04 PM
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#6 and #8 can have all kinds of issues. Because 6 and 8 fire after one another 6 can also rob 8 of fuel and oil too. I don't think this is your issue here. You can remove a VC gasket with no effect to the gasket itself. If you are worried about it resealing afterwards clean the cover real well and put the lightest of coats of gasket maker around the VC before installing the cover again. I've pinched a wire installing the VC and ruined a perfectly good UVCH before on install of the cover. **** happens. Here is a crude but correct wiring diagram for all the injectors. Pull the rear driver connector with the engine off and pull the harness from the IDM. In the VC connector the center pin is common hot for the injectors. With the key on is there 100v or more (BE CAREFUL AND DON'T DIE!!!)? Turn ignition off. The pin just to the right and left of the center pin is the switched negative back to the IDM the one on the left (retention clip up) is for the #6 cylinder and the one to the right is #8. Is the pin clean and shiny? Insert a paperclip into the right pin and go to the IDM harness connector. Set your multimeter to OHMs scale and take a reading. Is it .1 OHM or less? If so put the paperclip into the left pin and go to pin 19 on the harness connector to the IDM. Does it read .1 OHM or less? If so then the issue is under the VC.


Last edited by BigFuel; 05-08-2013 at 04:07 PM.
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Old 05-08-2013, 04:19 PM
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Thank you, thats excellent!!!

You state that the left side pin (#6) on the VC connector needs to be tested with pin 19 on the IDM harness, yet no IDM harness pin number is specified for the right side pin (#8) in the VC connector. It looks like 9 on the diagram but i wanted to make certain. Also, how does one go about finding the pin numbers on the IDM harness; I just looked at mine and cant see any numbering.
One last thing: are the VC gaskets interchangeable from driver to passenger side if you flip them over? I only ask because I have one good one from the passenger side and thought of just putting it on the drivers side if that would work.
Thank you very much for your help. I know that the solution is just around the corner.
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