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post #1 of 15 Old 10-17-2012, 04:49 AM Thread Starter
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Somethings pretty messed up...

alright fellas well its not starting for me this morning. yesterday after school when i was warming it up it started missing and loping like it had a big cam in it, and drove kinda the same way. you dont hear the missing as much throughout the RPM range, but it lacks a lot of power and you still feel it missing. yesterday morning it was firing right up same temp outside no problem, its never not started for me before. it feels kindof like maybe a couple of the injectors arent firing, and its got 258,000 on it with the factory injectors. i dont know how to go about testing them though. the tach mlkves when i crank it, and theres black smoke as i crank. its cranking like its gonna start right up and it doesnt. need some help guys, thanks in advance

-Conner

1997 F-250 Long Bed Extended Cab
--7.3 Powerstroke E40D Auto
--4.10 Rear End
--280,000 Miles

-Napa 6637 DIY CAI
-3 inch DP, 5 inch under truck, 6 inch Mitre!!
-2nd gen Wicked Wheel from Dieselsite
-Tony Wildman 6 Position Chip
Broke College Kid Mod
Now residing in LARAMIE, WY for school at the University of Wyoming! Hit me up if youre around, I'm always down for a hot rodding adventure

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post #2 of 15 Old 10-17-2012, 06:07 AM
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Sounds like a typical cold start w/ the ebpv in stalled. Have a video? Is your FPR screen clean?
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post #3 of 15 Old 10-17-2012, 09:06 AM
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And what is your fuel pressure once you get it running? No leaks in the valley?

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post #4 of 15 Old 10-17-2012, 06:40 PM Thread Starter
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i can use a tire pressure gauge at the shraeder valve on the fpr to check fuel pressure right? and ill get a video soon as i can get it to run, it wouldnt fire this morning. its dark now and i just got back so ill probably do what i can to get it running and into town where i can scan for codes and start checking things, thatll be after school tomorrow. so i guess the next update will be after that... it really doesnt feel like just the EBPV shut, but hell i dont know, havent encountered this before lol as soon as i get things checked out more ill post what i know

-Conner

1997 F-250 Long Bed Extended Cab
--7.3 Powerstroke E40D Auto
--4.10 Rear End
--280,000 Miles

-Napa 6637 DIY CAI
-3 inch DP, 5 inch under truck, 6 inch Mitre!!
-2nd gen Wicked Wheel from Dieselsite
-Tony Wildman 6 Position Chip
Broke College Kid Mod
Now residing in LARAMIE, WY for school at the University of Wyoming! Hit me up if youre around, I'm always down for a hot rodding adventure

"Never cut what you can untie"
--Buckaroo Proverb
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post #5 of 15 Old 10-17-2012, 07:07 PM
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No, a tire gauge won't tell you crap.

You need something that can give you a constant reading that is an actual gauge. A tire gauge won't do that. At least not that I've ever heard of. Air pressure is different than liquid pressure.

You can simply take a pen and see if there's fuel at the port by poking the valve but even that won't really tell you crap. Even a crappy working fuel pump can still put a little pressure at the port which would "seem" like you're getting fuel when actually, you're just getting "some."

You need to get a real fuel gauge or make one (about $20).

Other than that, without a scan tool, the only suggestions I have are to do basic visuals like check the wiring and other things. If you can, remove the valve covers and check the wiring under there. If the connectors on the valve cover gaskets themselves are bad or the wires underneath are melted or shorted to the injectors, obviously that would be a major issue.

Leaks are another obvious one as if there are leaks in the engine valley with fuel or oil, that would be a major issue to take care of. Or, if you have leaks on the fuel rail or otherwise.

Since these engines run with oil pressure (mainly), oil leaks that need to be pressurized like the HPOP and oild lines need to be checked. (Also, check your oil level, that would be a main one as well)

Outside of that, I would suggest a scan tool if you can get your hands on one.

I'm sure others will chime in with other suggestions.

Went to school in 94-95 for automotive. Ford Tech till 2000. Got out of the biz for a bit and then did it for a year at an independent shop. Now own my own business as a professional singer & entertainer & provide full event production from event setup & decor to lighting, sound, video & much more. Don't claim to "know-it-all" when it comes to vehicles and always love to discuss things to get a different point of view. Hopefully you can see past my direct nature and understand mine.
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post #6 of 15 Old 10-17-2012, 08:43 PM Thread Starter
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^^ thanks man very edumucational. i dont know where i heard the tire gauge think, somewhere i reckon. how can i make a gauge?

-Conner

1997 F-250 Long Bed Extended Cab
--7.3 Powerstroke E40D Auto
--4.10 Rear End
--280,000 Miles

-Napa 6637 DIY CAI
-3 inch DP, 5 inch under truck, 6 inch Mitre!!
-2nd gen Wicked Wheel from Dieselsite
-Tony Wildman 6 Position Chip
Broke College Kid Mod
Now residing in LARAMIE, WY for school at the University of Wyoming! Hit me up if youre around, I'm always down for a hot rodding adventure

"Never cut what you can untie"
--Buckaroo Proverb
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post #7 of 15 Old 10-17-2012, 09:03 PM
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Honestly,
I'd ask Bigfuel or some others on here as I think they have more experience with these things currently than I do. I haven't been involved with one since about 2000ish. But, you can buy a 5' to 6' fuel line anywhere (I say that long so if you need to close the hood on it's safety catch to take the truck for a test drive and monitor fuel pressure while driving, you can run it around the hood space without kinking the line), you can get a 100 - 300 psi liquid gauge just about anywhere as well. Although one made for fuel would be better since eventually a regular gauge may go bad with fuel drying up the seals inside the gauge. As for the adapter to connect to the fuel rail pressure port, I can't remember where you would find that but I'm sure your local hardware or agriculture supply store will have something.

Again, ask someone on here as they probably have better recommendations that I. You can use hose clamps if you need and I think you should be able to do it for $20-$30 depending on gauges and connectors.

Hose - $8
Clamps - $4
Gauge - $8-$20
Connector for fuel port - $10 (??)
Adapter for hose to gauge - $3?

Ok, so maybe it's more in the $30 range but still, this way you would have a fuel gauge for your life. If you want, heck, buy an autometer gauge that you would install inside your truck and use that. Then, when you get ready to, you can install it inside your truck if you want. Or remove it when needing to check other vehicles.

I don't know if it would matter between diesel or gasoline but check that too. I will assume that maybe you "shouldn't" mix the two but I'm sure you could if you had to.

Went to school in 94-95 for automotive. Ford Tech till 2000. Got out of the biz for a bit and then did it for a year at an independent shop. Now own my own business as a professional singer & entertainer & provide full event production from event setup & decor to lighting, sound, video & much more. Don't claim to "know-it-all" when it comes to vehicles and always love to discuss things to get a different point of view. Hopefully you can see past my direct nature and understand mine.
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post #8 of 15 Old 10-18-2012, 12:00 AM
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100-300psi guage isn't even going to register a pressure with our trucks.
Look for one that is 0-80psi, or somewhere in that range.
Is the 'cam-lope' sound rhythmic ie repeated every two rotations of the engine (one for intake and one for exhaust), or does it come and go?
Have you been in the valley or under the VC at all recently? My bet is either a connection to the UVCH, or from the UVCH to an injector (most likely more than one) is either disconected or burnt. Without pulling the VC, you can remove the oil fill cap with the engine running and take a whiff. More than likely you'll be able to smell if there is a burnt connection.
I really, really don't think it is an EBPV issue for two reasons.
1) A closed EBPV will make a whooshing sound (kind of like a fan clutch looked up) at idle.
2) It won't effect your ability to start the truck.
The fact that you are having a no start condition confirms the loose/burnt connection theory. If a UVCH has shorted or become disconected it will take power from an entire bank of glowplugs and make the truck a b!tch to start. I've seen these trucks run on a single bank of injectors, and they do sound like a BBC with a mean cam.
One way to test without pulling the VC is (assuming you can get the truck running) to disconnect the UVCH harness' one plug at a time (there will be four, two on each side). If the engine dies, or sounds noticably different then those injectors are functioning. If you do not notice a change, or the change is minimal as compared to a known good connection then you have narrowed your problem down to one or both of those two injectors.

I hope everything in there makes sense. No sleep for 36hrs can make a guy say strange things.

On edit: If you do end up buying a fuel pressure guage, make sure you get a liquid filled one. The fuel pump is run off of a cam shaft lobe and will have pressure spikes/valleys each time the lobe actuates the pump. A liquid filled guage will stabilize the pressure reading and ensure it is accurate.

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post #9 of 15 Old 10-18-2012, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by backwoodsboy View Post
100-300psi guage isn't even going to register a pressure with our trucks.
Look for one that is 0-80psi, or somewhere in that range.
Is the 'cam-lope' sound rhythmic ie repeated every two rotations of the engine (one for intake and one for exhaust), or does it come and go?
Have you been in the valley or under the VC at all recently? My bet is either a connection to the UVCH, or from the UVCH to an injector (most likely more than one) is either disconected or burnt. Without pulling the VC, you can remove the oil fill cap with the engine running and take a whiff. More than likely you'll be able to smell if there is a burnt connection.
I really, really don't think it is an EBPV issue for two reasons.
1) A closed EBPV will make a whooshing sound (kind of like a fan clutch looked up) at idle.
2) It won't effect your ability to start the truck.
The fact that you are having a no start condition confirms the loose/burnt connection theory. If a UVCH has shorted or become disconected it will take power from an entire bank of glowplugs and make the truck a b!tch to start. I've seen these trucks run on a single bank of injectors, and they do sound like a BBC with a mean cam.
One way to test without pulling the VC is (assuming you can get the truck running) to disconnect the UVCH harness' one plug at a time (there will be four, two on each side). If the engine dies, or sounds noticably different then those injectors are functioning. If you do not notice a change, or the change is minimal as compared to a known good connection then you have narrowed your problem down to one or both of those two injectors.

I hope everything in there makes sense. No sleep for 36hrs can make a guy say strange things.

On edit: If you do end up buying a fuel pressure guage, make sure you get a liquid filled one. The fuel pump is run off of a cam shaft lobe and will have pressure spikes/valleys each time the lobe actuates the pump. A liquid filled guage will stabilize the pressure reading and ensure it is accurate.
When I said 100-300 I meant either a 0-100 psi or 0-300 psi gauge. Obviously it will be more accurate with a 0-100 psi gauge but for future things, you will be limited to only 100 psi so if you needed a bigger gauge that went to 150 or 200 or even 300, you wouldn't have it. I have used a 0-300 psi gauge on other things and it was fine for accuracy. Honestly, we're talking about getting within 3-5 psi (and sometimes 5-10) on most vehicles and the 0-300 psi gauges can be read just fine. Here is a link to a picture of one to give you an idea. NOSHOK 25-901-300 Bottom Mount 2.5" Pressure Gauge 0-300 psi, S.S., 1/4" NPT - FreshWaterSystems.com It is marked in 5 psi increments so if you can see the reading either in between or on those increments, you're doing pretty good and should be within 2 psi which would be darn close. I merely mentioned a bigger gauge for the "potential" to use it for other things down the road. But if you only are concerned about lower pressure readings like most fuel pumps on cars and these diesels will have, Backwoods' suggestion of a 0-100 psi gauge would be better for more accurate resluts. Obviously.

And agreed, liquid filled would be better but they usually cost about 2-3 (that's two to three times for Backwoods...hehehehee) as much. Sometimes they're only 1 1/2 times the price of a non-liquid filled gauge but not usually.

I'm with the idea of wiring or connectors under the valve covers but don't dismiss that it may be bad wiring somewhere else too.

Went to school in 94-95 for automotive. Ford Tech till 2000. Got out of the biz for a bit and then did it for a year at an independent shop. Now own my own business as a professional singer & entertainer & provide full event production from event setup & decor to lighting, sound, video & much more. Don't claim to "know-it-all" when it comes to vehicles and always love to discuss things to get a different point of view. Hopefully you can see past my direct nature and understand mine.
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post #10 of 15 Old 10-18-2012, 04:34 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by backwoodsboy View Post
100-300psi guage isn't even going to register a pressure with our trucks.
Look for one that is 0-80psi, or somewhere in that range.
Is the 'cam-lope' sound rhythmic ie repeated every two rotations of the engine (one for intake and one for exhaust), or does it come and go?
Have you been in the valley or under the VC at all recently? My bet is either a connection to the UVCH, or from the UVCH to an injector (most likely more than one) is either disconected or burnt. Without pulling the VC, you can remove the oil fill cap with the engine running and take a whiff. More than likely you'll be able to smell if there is a burnt connection.
I really, really don't think it is an EBPV issue for two reasons.
1) A closed EBPV will make a whooshing sound (kind of like a fan clutch looked up) at idle.
2) It won't effect your ability to start the truck.
The fact that you are having a no start condition confirms the loose/burnt connection theory. If a UVCH has shorted or become disconected it will take power from an entire bank of glowplugs and make the truck a b!tch to start. I've seen these trucks run on a single bank of injectors, and they do sound like a BBC with a mean cam.
One way to test without pulling the VC is (assuming you can get the truck running) to disconnect the UVCH harness' one plug at a time (there will be four, two on each side). If the engine dies, or sounds noticably different then those injectors are functioning. If you do not notice a change, or the change is minimal as compared to a known good connection then you have narrowed your problem down to one or both of those two injectors.

I hope everything in there makes sense. No sleep for 36hrs can make a guy say strange things.

On edit: If you do end up buying a fuel pressure guage, make sure you get a liquid filled one. The fuel pump is run off of a cam shaft lobe and will have pressure spikes/valleys each time the lobe actuates the pump. A liquid filled guage will stabilize the pressure reading and ensure it is accurate.
wow thats really helpful too, thanks fellas. ill be sure to check it out after school

-Conner

1997 F-250 Long Bed Extended Cab
--7.3 Powerstroke E40D Auto
--4.10 Rear End
--280,000 Miles

-Napa 6637 DIY CAI
-3 inch DP, 5 inch under truck, 6 inch Mitre!!
-2nd gen Wicked Wheel from Dieselsite
-Tony Wildman 6 Position Chip
Broke College Kid Mod
Now residing in LARAMIE, WY for school at the University of Wyoming! Hit me up if youre around, I'm always down for a hot rodding adventure

"Never cut what you can untie"
--Buckaroo Proverb
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