HELP - No start cold. I have tried it all (I think) - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 23 Old 02-10-2017, 02:46 AM Thread Starter
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Exclamation HELP - No start cold. I have tried it all (I think)

She won't start cold. By cold I mean less than 50-55 degrees (give or take).
I did new UVCHs, new GPs (ford), new relay (well, 3 of them). I also changed the oil to 5w40 synthetic and added 2 bottles of RevX. I run the archoil fuel additive. At 60, she starts fine. Plugging in the block heater makes no difference. It is getting power because it is warm.

So, monitoring it this morning I can see (and hear) the GP Relay going and carguage confirms it is on. I have also tested using a voltmeter to verify the relay is sending power when it is on (you can hear it hum). My injection pressure is over 500 (usually around 1200) when I crank. I have new batteries, a new starter, and a new CPS (did a second new one just in case so I have a spare in the glovebox). A KOEO test says system pass. The injector buzz test buzzes all injectors and they all make the same sound (one isn't significantly quieter than the other).

She cranks over fine but won't start. The RPMs are showing and not dropping off. I'll get some whiteish/greyish smoke if I keep cranking. I'll go home this afternoon, it will be 59 outside and she'll fire right up not plugged in.
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post #2 of 23 Old 02-10-2017, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarnut View Post
Plugging in the block heater makes no difference.
that's completely odd.....WHEN BLOCK HEATER PLUGGED in you should have zero issues...
EOT = 90F when IAT = FREEZING OR BELOW.
CHECK YOUR ENGINE BLOCK HEATER?

can you see the voltage drop on the meter when the GP are on?
.....increase when they turn off?

FOR ME:
GPIL = 6 seconds (a joke indicator light)
GP ON time = 84 seconds at IAT = 38F, EOT = 45F

voltage will go from 12 v to 11.4 volt when GP ON
then jump up to 11.88 or so when GP turn off.

I have done as many as 5 FULL GP BURNS 84 SECONDS EACH.......
at 40F or below and using my cold start tune no problems.

although at freezing/8000' on trips I stay plugged in for 3 days if I can!
have a propane generator for powering the block heater if no grid power

Depends more on fuel mixes .....??
NOT ALL DIESEL IS CREATED EQUAL!

i COULD cold start better before changing injectors, removing EPBV, FUEL BOWL/HEATER......going efuel
..also have all new GP/BIG RELAY, rebuilt alternator
so i have today arriving some fuel filter heaters!
will install and test and post results...



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Last edited by ptp; 02-10-2017 at 07:50 AM.
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post #3 of 23 Old 02-10-2017, 01:34 PM
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Have you TESTED the block heater?

Have you TESTED the GP relay and checked its voltage drop? Have you measured the resistance of the GPs?

What is EOT after the block heater has been plugged in for 2-3 hours?
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post #4 of 23 Old 02-11-2017, 05:24 AM Thread Starter
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I'll respond to both here:
I can't measure EOT only ECT since it is a manual there is no EOT sensor. It doesn't come up on my scanner but ECT does. My GPS will stay on up to 2 minutes. I can hear it and the scanner says so. All of my filters are less than 3000 miles (fuel, oil, etc).

This morning I tested, using a multimeter, the block heater and it shows that I am getting continuity the full circuit. I can feel it get warm and i use the amp meter setting and see voltage being drawn (or amperage, pardon me if I use the wrong terms). I also know the cable is good because before I figured out how to use the multimeter i shocked the he77 out of myself.

I checked the continuity of all GPs (all new) using the ohm setting and all but 1 show "continuity." Oddly enough, the 1 is on the drivers side which is a pain. 1 bad GP shouldn't affect starting? I really don't want to remove that valve cover if I don't have to.

I also get this oddity, the GP relay will cycle on and off for a couple seconds, while it does this the WTS light also goes on and off. Sometimes during this process, the CEL will alternate with the WTS but doesn't throw a code. You can hear it clicking on and off and see the voltage meter on the dash move when it does this. I took a screwdriver and manually jumpered the 2 posts of the GPR for about 45 seconds and tried to start and nothing. Crank but no start.

We have 1 local diesel shop and they don't know what they are doing so my only other option is ford. While their labor rate is the same as other shops you know how they love to throw unnecessary parts at anything to push up the bill.

Any advice is appreciated. Again, it is a 95 F250 7.3
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post #5 of 23 Old 02-11-2017, 06:15 AM
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There is no ECT sensor tied to the PCM on any of our trucks. And they all have an EOT sensor. Both our trucks have 5-speeds and they have EOT sensors. Sounds like your device isn't communicating properly.

A GP that reads "continuity" constitutes a dead short to ground. This would explain the cycling relay; on our trucks the relay should NEVER cycle like that. The lights and GPR cycling indicate the short is causing the voltage to drop, so the PCM powers down; this de-energizes the GPR, so the voltage recovers, the PCM re-energizes and the cycle starts all over. It's a surprise the fusible links powering the hot terminal of the GPR haven't burned. For the time being, you might try disconnecting that one errant GP and see what happens. It might also be the wire to that GP under the valve cover that's shorting to ground. But that's where I'd point the troubleshooting.

Clueless local diesel shop is not unusual, and not really their "fault" they're clueless. As time passes, our trucks and their systems are inexorably passing into the esoteric realm of "oh yeah my dad worked on one of those" vehicles. Ford dealer is NOT your "only" other option. A good study of the FSMs and reference to this and the other forums are your other, most viable, options.
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post #6 of 23 Old 02-11-2017, 06:27 AM Thread Starter
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When I say continuity I may be using that word incorrectly. It should read 0 if there is a connection and 1 if not. So, the display says 1 and when I touch the tester ends together it reads 0. I am saying that continuity means it reads 0 as 1 means there is no connection. So, I am probably using that term incorrectly. All GPs read 0 except number 3 which reads 1. If I take an extension cord and jumper it, then it reads 0, otherwise, it reads 1 (no continuity or connection).

Oddly enough, the GP won't do that click on and off BS if it is over about 50-55. At this temperature, I runs as it should as I can hear it energizing the GPs and verify it via the tester. I am going to try to figure out where the EOT is. I think I know so maybe I'll see if I can get a replacement at advance or somewhere and install it today. If not I'll order it from riffraff or dieselorings.

Where would I find a FSM?

Any other advice from anyone is greatly appreciated.
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post #7 of 23 Old 02-11-2017, 07:04 AM
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For checking the injector/glowplug wiring:

From each valvecover gasket connection's outermost pins (2 per connector) to ground you should get 0.1 to 2 ohms (indicates good plug and wiring)
I GET 0.7-0.8 OHM

From each valvecover gasket connection's center pin to each immediately adjacent pin, you should get around 3-4 ohms (indicates good injector solenoid and wiring).
I GET 2.7-2.8 OHM

You should not get any continuity from any of the outer pins to the 3 inner pins (indicates no shorts between injector and glowplug wiring).
AMENS WHAT i GOT!

You should also get 0 to 1 ohms from each of the external harness connectors outer pins back to the Glowplug Relay's large terminal on the GP side (indicates good wiring from external connections back to the relay).
I GET 0.8 OHM


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post #8 of 23 Old 02-11-2017, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarnut View Post
When I say continuity I may be using that word incorrectly. It should read 0 if there is a connection and 1 if not. So, the display says 1 and when I touch the tester ends together it reads 0. I am saying that continuity means it reads 0 as 1 means there is no connection. So, I am probably using that term incorrectly. All GPs read 0 except number 3 which reads 1. If I take an extension cord and jumper it, then it reads 0, otherwise, it reads 1 (no continuity or connection).
Don't bother with a "yes/no" tester. Use an ohmmeter.

Quote:
Oddly enough, the GP won't do that click on and off BS if it is over about 50-55. At this temperature, I runs as it should as I can hear it energizing the GPs and verify it via the tester. I am going to try to figure out where the EOT is. I think I know so maybe I'll see if I can get a replacement at advance or somewhere and install it today. If not I'll order it from riffraff or dieselorings.
EOT sensor is on the HPO reservoir. Three-wire connector, if memory serves. First you have to get your device to recognize it, before you know whether it needs to be replaced.

Quote:
Where would I find a FSM?
Helm, Inc., or eBay. There are CD/DVD versions as well.
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post #9 of 23 Old 02-12-2017, 07:58 AM Thread Starter
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My scanner won't read EOT but reads ECt which is odd (blue elm and carguage pro). I found the eot and it tests ok. My next questions are:
1. Why would the gpr be cycling on and off at 40 degrees but at 55 it works fine (1 bad gp).
2. Even if eot sensor is bad wouldn't it assume the same temp each time causing it to behave the same at 40 and 60?

Thanks for all the help. I am not mechanically inclined but am learning with your help.
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post #10 of 23 Old 02-12-2017, 10:09 AM
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You could try jumping the glow plug relay with a screw driver with the key in the "wait to start" position and make sure the relay is functioning fine. I have often just bridged the two large posts with the screwdriver for 15/20 seconds then hop in and see if it will start.

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