Vibrations = Egged Shaped Rims? - Page 2 - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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post #11 of 24 Old 03-26-2016, 03:57 AM Thread Starter
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spacers NOT new,
Precision LATHE machined=can't imagine any issues w/rotational balancing....but won't rule out.
..if take them out/drive it w/1 rear wheel & no more vibrations then hey....

both rear tires are balanced and bagged,
so dynamic bead balancing takes care of any additional rotational mass balancing EVEN in the brake drums I'd assume. was thinking to put on some clear tubing with fluid in it around tire during stationary jacked up tests and watch to see what happens.

will double check all alignments, toe, caster, camber,SIA.....etc. but they all seem correct.
and for me it's been a constant thing since before any RSK...spacers et. al.
IN FACT, I ONLY DID RSK ET. AL. to try and get her as smooth as I could and stop all vibes.
Camber on a Dana 60 kinda hard to get wrong if you've only replaced ball joints....?
Tie Rods et. al. just kept the same measurement across the gap... mine is always been near the shortest adjustment
but feathering outside of steer not a tie rod issue.

next steps when motivated....
rotate the steer to the back now with 4kmiles
run up to speed on blocks to see if can replicate stationary
run up to speed on dyno?
find a dynamic balancer in Southern California/Arizona?

OR........SHUTUP.....rotate the steer and keep on driving & hunting down Zombies...
can't feel the vibrations on the road when yer crushin' the walking dead!

IMHO
Cupping/Feathering is NOT related/not a symptom of vibrations.
Road Crown:
Desert Southwest =roads pitched intensely to handle flash flooding/cross dry washes
worse thing to have water pool-up on a road or hit a wash out that can happen in 5 minutes.

Long rear wheel drive/DRW vehicle;
Heavy Front End (4700lbs on front axle) always wants to go Downhill=mostly to the right
Pivoting on light rear end/rigid 4 tire pivot point (3500ish on rear axle)
so, i'm always holding pressure on the wheel to turn left.
did new steering box/shaft etc. and NO CHANGE.
it's just natural.
when the road suddenly shifts pitch, then I have to counter-steer the other way.
to me this explains the feathering/cupping on the outside steer,
although I'd expect it to NOT be equal on both tires,
but any steering at slow speeds grinds on outside edge.


here's some reading I found that's helping me a bit
Reading Tire Wear Patterns
ROAD CROWN ISSUES
Most highways are built higher at the center to *expedite drainage of rainwater and melting snow. This angled road surface, commonly called road crown, will cause a RWD vehicle aligned with equal side-to-side camber and caster angles to drift to the outer edge of the roadway. In contrast, most FWD and all-wheel-drive (AWD) *vehicles are not nearly as sensitive to differences or “splits” in side-to-side camber and caster angles because the driving thrust transmitted through the front wheels pulls the vehicle along the road crown.

Nevertheless, many alignment techs often “tweak” camber and caster angles on RWD vehicles to reduce steering pull on crowned roads. Keep in mind that camber angles in RWD vehicles tend to pull toward the most positive camber, while caster angles in RWD vehicles tend to pull toward the most negative caster angle.

If the front wheels have insufficient toe angle, the driver’s-side front tire will tend to wear on the *inside edge, since it’s trying to steer the vehicle *toward the center of the road. Conversely, if the front wheels have excessive toe angle, the right front or passenger-side front tire will tend to wear at the outer edge because it’s trying to steer the *vehicle toward the center of the road.

In summary, the diagnosis of any tire wear complaint requires a thorough interview with the customer concerning the history of the vehicle and any unusual driving conditions, including how the vehicle is routinely loaded. The diagnostic process also requires a thorough knowledge of how the fixed *angles, including steering axis inclination and Ackerman Effect, can affect tire wear. In most cases, *unusual tire wear patterns are the result of collision damage that can’t be detected unless the steering axis inclination and turning *radius or Ackerman Effect are accurately measured.




Reading Tire Wear Patterns - Tire Review Magazine

"But, it should be noted, the leading cause of outer edge wear on modern vehicles is over-enthusiastic cornering."
Not me, but for a heavy vehicle even mild cornering can be enthusiastic for tires?


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Last edited by ptp; 03-26-2016 at 04:01 AM.
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post #12 of 24 Old 03-26-2016, 08:32 AM
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Have you used a dial indicator to measure rim runout while the tires are mounted on the truck and verify the rim is true and tire is not out of round?
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post #13 of 24 Old 05-18-2016, 08:40 PM
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So I'm not the only one fighting this issue? Not sure if i shoukd be happy or sad. Or both at the same time.

I have a 2wd drw. Smooth as silk at 60-65. Bounces like all hell at 75-80, exactly the speeds i want to drive. Im talking you can see the bed dance and shake like it is going to come off. Door panels rattle like they are goung to break. So you drive no more than 65, unless pulling around 10k. Dont notice it much then.

After a dozen years and 60k miles, things have improved, but its still there. Here is a list of what has been done.

Two full sets of tires.
Rebuilt rear, installed 3.55 r&p for the 4.10
Installed Edelbrock shocks at all four corners
Three sets of inner steel wheels. Last set reduced vibrations by about half. Turns out previous owner and two shops had the wrong wheels on it. Discount Tire figured this out last year.
Aligned by shop that knew how to do the job. Improved things somewhat. First shop butchered the deal.
Driveshaft checked
New ball joints. One tie rod. New steering stabilizer.

This has been a battle for me all this time. Truck rides like a car, until you cross the point. Then you will regret it or have to run 85-90 for it to smooth out. Im now thinking the aluminum wheels are out of round and that might be the remaining vibration.

97 F350 EC 2wd PSD auto Stock
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post #14 of 24 Old 05-19-2016, 04:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossterman View Post
Have you used a dial indicator to measure rim runout while the tires are mounted on the truck and verify the rim is true and tire is not out of round?
That's exactly how I found a bad rim on mine. A few miles on a bad rim and the tire is screwed.

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post #15 of 24 Old 05-19-2016, 06:39 AM
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I fought this same issue with mine for awhile. Measure the hub on the truck and the center hole on the rim. I found that my rim was slightly larger then the hub. On duallys we use a hub centric wheel instead of the lug centric like on the SRW's. My wheels were not centered perfect on the hub and caused an out of round condition that became a nasty high speed vibration. I fixed it by having a set of custom hub centric spacers made for the front wheels to fill the gap perfect. Then I put in a set of balancing beads on all 6 tires and she rides smooth now. Well as smooth as the stock OBS leaf springs will allow

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post #16 of 24 Old 05-20-2016, 06:08 AM
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The hub idea just mentioned is definitely worth a shot.

I ran into an old mechanic i hadnt seen in a long long time this week. Talking about my trans rebuild, i mentioned this topic. He said there is either a suspension bushing bad someplace or a mount is junk. Several have looked for bad suspension bushings over the years. Will have to explore the bad mount possibility. The trans is coming out soon so will get into that.

97 F350 EC 2wd PSD auto Stock
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post #17 of 24 Old 05-20-2016, 12:24 PM Thread Starter
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i'm at 4000 miles on new tires and all new steel rims, haven't driven it in months except for hauling some concrete below 60mph.
still have my vibe 62mph and up, some roads not so bad.

will rotate tires soon and whilst there= spin up on jacks and check some things out.
still haven't had any weight in the thing,
should have loaded that concrete on the tonque but never wanted to hit over 60 hauling 9k-10k.

road crown always has me steering left.
outside of front tires definite wearing more/cupping/feathering.

Seems vibes standard issue with my truck for over 10 years. despite all work done, it's remained consistent.
only thing I've never touched is rear end, wheel bearings, etc. could be back there......
need to put some weight back there as well and drive it,
heavy tongue weight/light trailer on new titan hitch or...
. got a water tank that will fit and have to drain a pool soon.

appreciate all the comments here and will post again when I actually try to troubleshoot this some more.

take spacers out and drive it too maybe and see but they are hub-centric 2"spacers.


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post #18 of 24 Old 01-08-2017, 10:09 AM Thread Starter
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..UPDATE..
DEFINITELY IN THE REAR, HAD IT UP TO SPEED ON JACKS THIS AM.

what can it then be:

1. Wheel Bearings that have never been changed. all stock
2. Pumpkin issues? Oil not too old.
3. Drive Shaft? never been changed or touched, all stock.


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post #19 of 24 Old 01-08-2017, 10:54 AM
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Take the driveshaft to be balanced with new U joints and carrier bearing.
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post #20 of 24 Old 01-10-2017, 03:50 AM Thread Starter
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OK,
dropped it off yesterday at Allstate Driveshaft in yucca valley.
he was going to put in NEAPCO greaseable, then I insisted on Solid Spicers 1350's

interesting how they don't use the 1410 for diesels.
my dually which is a conversion using SRW 10.25 axle's with dually spacers....


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