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Old 12-19-2013, 12:15 PM
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Falls on face...

Patience, it gets there... 1997 F350, 7.3 liter turbo diesel, K&N Big filter, Big bore downpipe, dual exhaust split before the muffler...

Sat for 3 years.... No fault of it's own. I got hurt and couldn't work on it.

Before it sat, It got hard to start... and if you didn't let it warm up before going, it would lose power (coughing) and quit. But then it immediately restarted and it would be fine. The lift pump was seeping fuel into the vally and I figured it needed glow plugs. I replaced both, but then it would not start. It would built 47 pounds of fuel pressure cranking, but would start with ether (die when it burned that up).

I towed it to my Ford Dealer (next town). They said it needed an Injector Drive Module and that the glow plug relay was burned up- $1400. I gave them the go ahead. They replaced both and did some recall work. I went to pick it up, they said it started fine and ran great. They lied.

I went outside. After rolling it over a couple minutes each x 4 times before it finally caught. It coughed and sputtered until it warmed up, with lots of white smoke and sputtering. I let it warm up, then put it in gear... Would not move. Went back in to service manager... he said he'd have it looked at.

Next day, he said all that was wrong was that the brake linkage was sticking, to pull it up with my toe on the pedal. I asked him again if the mechanic test drove it... he said yes and that it was fine. Second lie. It caught on the second try. Lots of white smoke and sputtered to life, so I let it warm up... But figured maybe I should go to the end up the road and back before making the trip home. It could not get above 20 mph and had no power.

I went back in. Told the service manager he needed to test drive it. He test drove it and agreed something was wrong. He mentioned that maybe it had algae in the fuel, that it possibly needed the tanks pumped and cleaned. I said to go ahead.

Next day, the service manager said "yes" it needed the tanks drained. I told him I already gave him the okay for that. Next day, nothing further.... the mechanic had went home sick. Next day, same. Weekend. Monday the service manager was sick. I kept asking myself what was up- didn't they have other mechanics?

Next day the parts manager said I needed the tanks pumps and cleaned... and new injectors. Estimate now at $3400 plus. I said stop. Went there... truck was in the exact same spot as it was parked a week previous = had not moved. (Had spider webs under the tires!!!) Right then and there I lost all faith it that dealer. They had told me all that and had lied.

I drove home. It took me miles to get to 35 mph. Downhill I could get to 45 mph.

I treated with Biobor and ran an hour each day. When I got each tank down, I drained both tanks. The fuel was clear, clean and no water. I pulled the rear tank an it was clean. I put it back in. I retreated with Biobor, added diesel treatment and 1/2 quart of trans fluid per tank, filled tanks, changed oil and oil filter... I changed the fuel filter again.

I cut open the fuel filter and it was clean!?! The truck starts, even though it is darn cold out. The truck idles fine/smooth, no miss. But put it in gear and it falls on it's face with no power.

My ODB II scanner doesn't read my truck. I can't read live data on it with my scanner. I can read codes on it, by trying to connect, it's errors saying it cannot connect, but on backing out, it will display any codes it has. The service light is off. Fuel pressure is at 50 pounds. I'm running out of ideas...

Is there anything I can check on this before tossing out money for injectors and possibly finding out that isn't it? I'm about to throw down $1200 for a set of baby swamps... but I would hate to put out that much and have it still broke, because that wasn't it.


EDIT--
Checked the ICP sensor at idle and it falls when unplugged and smooths back out when re-plugged in (good). I pulled and cleaned the EBP sensor and it's tube. It was plugged, but that didn't change anything with thsi problem. I changed out and fushed the HPOP oi. It was full and clean. None of that changed a thing. It starts up "faster," but still has no power in gear.

I'm thinking I need to find my IR thermometer to check if all the exhaust ports warm up evenly from cold. I'm thinking if one or some where bad, then they might be cooler, and that would point me to which cover to pull off. Then from there (if) then pull injector plugs while running to narrow it down. Going a little blind, as I thought I would at least get one idea from member's...

Last edited by MAFoElffen; 12-21-2013 at 09:07 AM.
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Old 12-21-2013, 11:08 AM
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Bump--

I checked it with an IR thermometer... Before starting it, the exhaust manifolds where consistently 39 -40 degrees Fahrenheit.

After starting and running for about 5 minutes, the driver side warmed up slowly quickly to 70 then to 161 degrees F. The right side stayed and about 41 degrees F from the front three.

You know... I was thinking, if it was all four on that side... If I was a betting man and if I was starting out from scratch, without doing anything else... I would say a loose harness connection, bad gasket harness or the maybe a bad new IPR(?).

With it running, I pulled the front connector and there was no change. Put it back on. I pulled the rear connector, immediately died. I think I'm remembering if it was all 4 in one side, that then to suspect a blown diode in the IPR... But is only 1-2...

I guess next would be to check voltages at the connector to make sure it is getting signals. The if there is, then pull that valve cover off and check which of the two front injectors it is... and if I'm getting voltage through the harness to the injectors (through the valve cover.)

DOES anyone here know the pinouts and voltages it should have at the harness valve cover gaskets and at the injectors? I think I'll wait to pull the until I verify the signals getting to the valve cover gaskets...

I'm wondering if my noid lights will work with them... hmmm.
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:46 PM
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Okay-

My truck uvch wiring seems different than most wiring diagrams I found on the web. In fact I didn't find a pinout for it on the web.

So for others following this, instead of one 9-pin connector, mine has 2 5 pin connectors at the valve cover gasket. The center pin (3) is the common, the outside pins (1 & 5) are the glow plug leads. The other pins (2 & 4) are the injector leads. For this, the uvch harness splits out the common, then y's to 2 cyl's each.

I checked voltages at the injectors and I get sense pulses. There is 0 ohms resistance in the uvch harness or valve cover gasket connections. The are about 2 ohms each through injectors 1 & 3...

So the electrical parts of my problems are fine. So it seems that I have 2 injectors that are mechanically bad. I guess is could be orings or nozzles.

So know I'm trying to decide if I should go cheap and just change out those 2 injectors or change out all 8. 2 would get me going... But there would be no guarantees that next week that more might go... I do have about 250k on the truck.

Thoughts anyone? Funny, it seems like since I've been on this Forum in a vacuum... maybe not a vacuum, there is an echo.
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Old 12-23-2013, 07:32 AM
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Wherever you've been looking at wiring diagrams on the web, it's been the wrong place. The 9-pin connectors you describe are for the '99-up SuperDuty trucks. It's not just your truck; all OBS trucks (stock) have the two 5-pin connectors on each side.

You might try swapping just the solenoids on the bad injectors from one good one to one bad, see if the problem "moves". IIRC, you can also briefly run the truck with the valve cover off, and see if each injector is spitting out the HP oil it uses on each injection.
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Old 12-23-2013, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madpogue View Post
Wherever you've been looking at wiring diagrams on the web, it's been the wrong place. The 9-pin connectors you describe are for the '99-up SuperDuty trucks. It's not just your truck; all OBS trucks (stock) have the two 5-pin connectors on each side.

You might try swapping just the solenoids on the bad injectors from one good one to one bad, see if the problem "moves". IIRC, you can also briefly run the truck with the valve cover off, and see if each injector is spitting out the HP oil it uses on each injection.
I've had it running with the valve cover off that side... And to tell the truth, I've looked at the oil deflectors of 1, 3, 5 & 7 and I can't tell the difference of any of them looking from on top.

- Should I have to look at it with a mirror to see or should it be obvious?

On swapping injector coils... I have skills. I used to be cert auto and diesel mechanic about 10 years before the DIT's came out. I can take apart and put together most anything... as long as I have an idea how it comes apart. So not a total noob, but new to DIT fixes.

Any ways... So can I exchange injector coils without pulling the injectors? Not familiar with electronic (DIT) injectors. I have that side exposed, so it wouldn't hurt to exchange the coil from 7 to 1...
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Old 12-23-2013, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madpogue View Post
You might try swapping just the solenoids on the bad injectors from one good one to one bad, see if the problem "moves". IIRC, you can also briefly run the truck with the valve cover off, and see if each injector is spitting out the HP oil it uses on each injection.
madpogue--

Thank you very much!!! You probably saved me a lot of time and about $1200!

1 & 3 were not squirting oil, but 5 & 7 were. I found a GB Tech bulletin (TB# 103) with the pinout for the IDM and specs for testing the injector resistance and wiring. Said they should be between 2.8 & 3.6 ohms:

pins 24&6, cyl 1, 0.6 ohms
pins 24&21, cyl. 3, 1.1 ohms
pins 24&8, cyl 5, 3.0 ohms
pins 24&20, cyl 7, 3.0 ohms
pins 23&22, cyl 2, 3.0 ohms
pins 23&7, cyl 4, 3.0 ohms
pins 23&19, cyl 6, 1.1 ohms
pins 23&9, cyl 8, 3.0 ohms

So instead of 2 injectors not working, there were 3... I called my local injection shop, then went there and picked up 3 used AA injector coils for $20 each, $60 total. They sell new ones for $50 each.

Came home and put on 1&3... (screws are torqued at 18 inch pounds) They are back up and squirting oil fine. Now if I pull the pull on those 2 injectors, I can hear a miss That didn't affect those before the change.

Dark as all get out out there now. So tomorrow I'll pull the driver side valve cover and change out the coil on #6.

Then put it back together. Since it was down, I pulled the master cyl and vacuum booster to throw on a hydroboost. That part is supposed to be there tomorrow. Then I have to pull the turbo to fix a few things on the EBPV (stuck and linkage is apart on it).

But yes, you saved me by giving me ideas. Thank you much!

Last edited by MAFoElffen; 12-23-2013 at 04:59 PM.
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Old 12-24-2013, 06:47 PM
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I was hopeful. I thought that with the injector working again that it would be fixed.

Low RPM it feels strong. Upper RPM's and it surges and feels like it's running out of fuel.

I have an Auto Enginuity- All FORD bundle coming so I came dump codes, run it and look at live data... and diagnose it further.

I doubt it, but it could just be the pint each of trans fluid and biocide I dumped in the tanks to kill/clean anything there.
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Old 12-25-2013, 08:55 AM
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I'd look into the EBPS just to be sure. Those things when it's cold out will do stupid stuff as well. Maybe unplug the wire underneath the turbo and drive it around.


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Old 12-25-2013, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabegoforth View Post
I'd look into the EBPS just to be sure. Those things when it's cold out will do stupid stuff as well. Maybe unplug the wire underneath the turbo and drive it around.


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That's another story-- I cleaned the EBPV tube and sensor. The tube was plugged.

THEN I noticed that the linkage for the EBPV was disconneced... No problem there as the valve is froze open. At least I think it's froze in the open postion(?)

The knob where the linkage is attached to it furthest from the pedestal, so I assume that is in the "open" position. I have to pull the turbo anyways eventually to seal up an oil leak, so I'll take care of that then. Some would say that is fine and would be like a "delete" or blank pedestal, but I eventually want to use that valve as an exhaust brake.

So with it frozen "open," it's not that.

It "now" feels like it's not getting enough fuel! It runs strong until about 35-40 mph. At around 50-55mph, if I sand on the pedal, it will actually lose power and slow down. On the way up it feels like there is a slight flutter or surge.

I'm thinking since I can unplug each injector individually and now with each one it will lose rpm's and regain rpm's with them plugged in, that the major injector problems are taken over. If I a the middle o-ring leaking on an injector, that cylinder would not pick up like that would it? (Because if would be still not-functioning well?)

I have good lift pump pressure at around 55 pounds at idle. I've confirm that the fuel was clean and not contaminated.

I pulled off the plug for the ICP sensor and it loses rpm and picks up after it's plugged back in. So that seems to be working.

I'm suspecting a possible IPR or HPOP problems. Those would give me those problems. I'm hoping it's the IPR. I have a rebuild kit for that on my bench. I'm was thinking about pulling that this afternoon and rebuilding it... But I'm sort of holding out until that AE Ford kit gets here so I can better see what's going on... HPOP would be costly. I think (then) go ahead with a T-500.
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Old 12-25-2013, 07:27 PM
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Yeah. AE will help you a bunch. Cause knowing more pressures would be nice. Farthest away should wrong. Closed is pushed out and Open is sucked in. Ive rebuilt one and could maybe get you pictures.
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